In this episode of the Arts Management and Technology Lab, Daniel Temkin and Luna Lu discussed the artistic possibilities of code, focusing on esoteric programming languages (esolangs) and how they can function as a medium for art and human expression. Temkin explained that his interest began with experimenting in existing esolangs (like Brainfuck) around 2007-2008, leading him to create his own and document them conceptually, moving away from overly technical documentation. The conversation highlighted how giving up on the idea that programming must be practical allows for artistic exploration, connecting esolangs to idea art, constraint-based work (such as the Oulipo Group), and performance art. Temkin detailed the structure of his book, which presents programming languages as idea-based art, containing both realized works and conceptual prompts inspired by artists like Yoko Ono, and described how his languages — such as Fat Finger, which inspired code poetry, and Folders, which manipulates file system hierarchy — explore themes of collaboration, human irrationality, and the extreme constraints of logical systems. Listeners were also encouraged to explore existing esolangs on the Esolang Wiki before trying to design their own.