Can concerts mobilize music fans to climate action? From signing a petition or voting, to participating in a protest - what actions are fans most likely to take when their favorite artists ask them to? Over the last year, Planet Reimagined’s Climate Active Fellows, Caleb Johnson and Li-Ya Mar have been tackling these questions through their project “Amplify: How to Build a Fan-Based Climate Movement.”
Planet Reimagined is a nonprofit organization founded by AJR bassist Adam Met and human rights activist Mila Rosenthal, which focuses on translating climate research into meaningful change. In this podcast, Caleb and Li-Ya talk with AMT Lab Lead Researcher Hannah Brainard about their research process, sharing some key findings and next steps.
What’s next for Amplify?
Planet Reimagined will implement the Amplify recommendations during AJR’s 43-city nationwide “The Maybe Man” tour this summer. At arenas across the U.S., they will connect fans with meaningful local action opportunities at each show while REVERB helps to reduce the environmental impact of the tour.
Additional Links:
Learn more about the project: Amplify: How to Build a Fan-Based Climate Movement
Read the full report.
Watch a CNN segment about the project with Planet Reimagined co-founder Adam Met.
Transcript
Hannah Brainard
Thank you for listening to another episode of Tech in the Arts, the podcast series of the Arts Management and Technology Laboratory at Carnegie Mellon University. The goal of our podcast series is to exchange ideas, bring awareness and stay on top of the trends.
My name is Hannah Brainard, my pronouns are she/her, and I’m the lead researcher with AMT Lab. In this series, we’re exploring the intersections of climate and the arts through interviews with leaders across disciplines. We hope you’ll learn more about actions you or your organization can take toward a more sustainable future.
Today, I’m joined by Li-Ya Mar and Caleb Johnson, Planet Reimaged’s Climate Active fellows. Planet Reimagined is a nonprofit organization founded by AJR bassist Adam Met and human rights activist Mila Rosenthal. The organization focuses on translating climate research into action to create meaningful change.
Over the last year, Caleb and Li-Ya have been exploring the role of live entertainment in climate advocacy - learning from music fans about the ways they would respond when their favorite artists ask them to take action. In this podcast, they’ll take us behind the scenes on their research, sharing some key findings and next steps.
Li-Ya is an educator and grassroots climate organizer with a PhD in Linguistics, and Caleb is an educator and musician, holding masters degrees in both International Relations and Leadership Studies.
Hannah Brainard
So first, Caleb and Li-Ya, thank you so much for joining us. It's such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Just to get started, could you tell us a little bit about your experience with the fellowship. We come from an academic background, so there are a lot of people sort of engaged in the kind of work that you're doing. So how did you hear about the fellowship? How did you apply? What has it been like for you so far?
Li-Ya Mar
I think I found about this fellowship on one of the climate focused career sites. And basically, I was in the life stage that, you know, I have a PhD not related to environment and stuff like that. But I realized this is an issue that, you know, everybody probably needs to, participate in to actually make it better and to improve it. And so several years ago, I started doing some volunteer organizing and stuff like that. It's all like side gigs. And then last year, I decided that, you know, what, I have a little bit of time, maybe there are other opportunities for me to formally get engaged with this. And then I thought about, well, what am I good at? Well, I can do a little bit of research. I have some experience working with volunteers and engaging with people. So when I saw this, I’m like - great, this is kind of a combination of that. So I did a little bit of digging, of Planet Reimagined and, you know, I found out that they're mostly doing fellowships, giving young people the opportunity to look into an issue from a more research angle, but, at the same time, they focus heavily on “Well, here's the research that you did, what now?”
So they focus a lot on helping us realize and understand how to bring that research part out to the world. And so I thought, that's really cool. It's not just like crunching some data, then writing some papers, and then that's it. Right? Like, there are actually opportunities to actually say, “Okay, this is what we found. And let's actually propose in the real world, and then our situation, we'll talk about it a little bit more, I guess. But to actually bring that into concerts and live events to see how fans actually react to the results. So I think that's where I found it, and that's what actually attracted me to say, “Let me apply and see if they want me.
Hannah Brainard
That's awesome, thank you. Caleb, what about you?
Caleb Johnson
Yeah, so I was interning at the California Democratic Party at the time, I had recently finished a master's in international relations. It was, of course, you know, sifting through endless job boards and endless ghosted applications and that whole fun process. And I stumbled on a random job posting on Indeed, which happened to be for this project. And I was really looking for a space where I could do research as a job and not just for school. This is something I've always loved. And this project was super unique because it brought together a lot of different chapters of my professional life in a way that no other job had ever done before. So even though I love research, and I'm working on climate change, I have a master's in international relations. My bachelor's is actually in music, and I used to work as a music director for churches in Southern California. So that experience had never really been directly applicable, but it was perfect for this project. It really grounded some of the ideas and the mindset that I brought to this project, because it used to be my job - to use music to create collective experiences that inspire people to make some sort of life change. So it was a really unique way for me to kind of pull that part of my life back into the present and make use of that experience in a way. And for an issue that is super pressing for our time.
Hannah Brainard
That's awesome. And that's a great jumping off point too. Talking about your background in music. So the project is called “Amplify: Building a Fan-Based Climate Movement.” Why is music - why are live events a good setting to take on a climate movement?
Li-Ya Mar
Well, I guess for us, I think, you know, I always I always ask this question, when people ask us this type of question, right? Like, you know, think about a time that you go to a concert - how do you feel in that space? How do you feel when there's only you and whoever you go with - versus when they're the two of you, or three of you, a group of you, with thousands of other people around you liking the same artists, singing the same songs, or dancing together. And so, the reason that we name our project “Amplify” - there are a couple of reasons. The first is, of course, there are so many organizations working on different issues in the climate movements, right? So the efforts are out there already. We think about an artist or music space, or whatever live events, as a tool, or as a platform to amplify these types of efforts. And these, you know, initiatives. and to say that people are doing great work, and our job is to help bring your voice and amplify your voice. That's the first thing.
But the second thing is really that when you go to a concert, your love and care and excitement just got amplified, because there are so many people around you, right? So, in a way, we're thinking - okay, great, our love and our care and our excitement can be amplified. What about the shared care that we have for our environment, for our community? Can we utilize this very specific and very special space to say that, “Hey, I see you.” You know, research after research - it shows that most of the people care about climate change, right? A lot of times we think about this as a very polarizing issue. But really, it's not. From Yale, from many polls, and from our own survey, we found about 70% of Americans actually care about this. But the truth is, we don't actually know we care about this. Like, we thought - oh, this is such a polarizing issue, you probably don't care. Or, you think you think this is a weird thing to talk about, so let's not talk about it. But the truth is that the majority of us do.
So in the concert space, can we actually use the space to see that, hey, I see you care about this too? Can we do something together to actually amplify the voice - and, you know, magnify the effort and the voice together, so we're loud enough to make sure people don't focus on climate denial? Because, again, they are not the majority. They're a tiny minority in our space, in our world. And so, yeah, that's like the idea of why music is an agent of change, in our opinion, or a material for change. But I'm pretty sure Caleb can talk a lot more as a music person, because I am not, but I understand the power.
Caleb Johnson
Yeah, I would add to it that -. so there was a famous book put out - I think it was like in 2000, they called it Bowling Alone, and just was showing how the early kind of civic institutions and norms and practices the United States were really in decline. And Americans are increasingly alone, more and more isolated, more and more disconnected. And now you'll see headlines pretty regularly that we have an epidemic of loneliness. So it's only gotten more severe. And those institutions, those places where people used to gather just aren't really around anymore. My grandmother used to tell stories of like, going to community dances, and this wasn't like your eighth grade dance in middle school. It was like the town put on a dance for all dating-aged people to mingle. And that's just sounds like a foreign concept to me. Like what? What universe was that? Because it's not the reality that we have today.
But music creates these live experiences, live events, that are one of these rare instances that still bring communities together. So it's one of those rare places where people who are strangers, yet have this common interest, this common love for certain artists, come together. Sometimes just their community, but from hours away or traveling to this one hotspot. And there's something magic about live events. The literature calls it “collective effervescence,” which comes from this sociological theory recognizing that - yes, we'd like to think of ourselves as individuals, but there is something different that happens when we're all together and participating in something collectively. As seen in like anthropological studies of religious rituals, or funeral rites, but also concerts and music events, that there's something that happens when we are singing and dancing together, that reminds us that we're not alone in the world, and has this effect on our psychology of feeling more empowered and more a part of something that's bigger than my own issues.
And so it just seems like, unlike a lot of other ways that we could talk about climate, the live music space allows us to tap into that collective magic from a hope filled positive way that not only could help us talk about climate, but also overcome our loneliness, and also overcome, you know, the climate anxiety and all these other issues that kind of layer onto each other. There's just a magic spot here, that we're trying to make use of.
Hannah Brainard
That's awesome. And I love this phrase “collective effervescence” - I wrote it down and double underlined, because that's such a, like a magical way to phrase that.
Caleb Johnson
Right?
Hannah Brainard
I think we all sort of feel this when we go to concerts or live performance spaces. That's what drew me to the field of arts management - that you're just in this room, this dark room, with a bunch of strangers, but somehow you all leave feeling better and like you're a part of something and motivated to do something new.
So, I love that. And I think what I love so much about some of the work that you've done is that you’ve found some quantitative data to back this up. It's not just something that we feel it's, it's there. There are numbers to show it. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about your research process, how you collected this data, and then how you tested some of these findings?
Li-Ya Mar
Well, I think you touch on one of the goals in our project, which is that a lot of times when we think about celebrity influence, or what they can do, we kind of always assume that Sure, Taylor Swift has this big name. And there's so many fans traveling from hours away to see her. So we kind of just assumed that they have the power. And they do, but there's no data to actually show that and before our research. And so our research really is, you know, grounded in the foundation that we want to provide data to show that it's not just our assumption, fans actually support this idea of artists doing something for the world to be better.
So, we partnered with Ticketmaster and Live Nation and their sustainability brand, Green Nation, to do a survey. We got about 1000 responses. Outside of that we also partner with Reverb, which is a US-based organization working in concert spaces. They work with Billie Eilish, they work with the Lumineers, Dave Matthews and some of the big names - basically trying to help the tours become more sustainable. But outside of that, they also have initiatives to engage fans and educate them about, you know, the impact of using a disposable water bottle or other aspects that you usually will see in the live music, event space.
And so we partnered with both of them. We did a big survey. The surveys that were sent out to the respondents from these two different organizations were pretty similar. There's like a little bit of tiny tweak in there, but we try to treat them as basically the same survey with different samples. And then we got the response. We can talk about the results a little bit but that's like the first half, or the first part of the research.
After that, once we had our findings, we actually designed engagement strategies, then brought our strategies and ways of engagement to real concert spaces. And so that's the second piece of our project, which is we partnered with iHeartRadio and we were in LA at their Jingle Ball during the Christmas season, and then we also went to one of The 1975 shows in Seattle. Just actually, you know, interviewed fans about what they actually think. Right? Because in the survey, the fans are answering questions about the concert space outside of the concert space. But when we were at the concert spaces, we were actually asking questions, doing qualitative data gathering, but asking question questions inside the concert space. So, you know, one thing that we really wanted to know is if there's any discrepancy outside of the concert space and in the concert space. But, at the same time, we want to use the concert spaces - the live or onsite research opportunity to really validate some of the things that we find. Or maybe, not validate them, right? So that's the second piece. So now we're in the process of really making recommendations. But the recommendations and insights are going to be based on the two parts. One is the quantitative part, one is a qualitative part. But one is also the survey part, and one is actually onsite doing the research. And yeah, so that's kind of the process.
Hannah Brainard
That's great. So diving into some of those findings that you were talking about, do fans want to engage with their favorite artists about climate change? And how? What else did you discover?
Caleb Johnson
Well, this was really exciting. So we took a question from Yale’s Six Americas, which consistently polls the United States to hear, you know, what do Americans think about climate change? We took one of their questions, “How important is climate change to you personally?” and we asked it to thousands of music fans. 72% said that climate change is somewhat, very, or extremely important, with over 50% in that extremely or very category. And what's important about this is that that 72% is actually seven percentage points higher than the national polling from 2023, which suggests that music fans might actually care about climate change more than the general public. And this is actually also really exciting because it's validating an idea that came out of the UK as well. I believe it was last year, the University of Glasgow did their own study of music fans, also suggesting UK music fans might care about climate change more than the general public. So it's really exciting that we're starting to see this pattern emerging that music fans really do care about this issue. And then we found that 70% of music fans do not oppose artists speaking out about this issue, and over 50% agree that they should. So not only do they care, but they want to see their favorite artists talking about this issue. And, positive for the artists, about 40% say that they would see artists as more inspiring if they were to take a stand on climate change.
We also asked some questions around discrete types of action that artists should do, fans can do, to really get an idea at the more granular level of what kinds of things fans might do if an artist were to ask them to do it. And so if you think about an arena full of thousands of people, our data would suggest that three in five of those people, if their favorite artists asked them to, would be likely to discuss climate change with their family, with their friends, or others in their lives. They'd be likely to sign a petition, or make changes to their life, or even vote for a certain candidate or party because of their position on climate issues. So three and five.
Two in five, would share on social media, donate, volunteer, contact government officials, and one in four would be willing to eat a plant-based diet or participate in a protest. So, we had a whole list of climate actions. And in the space of when you consider the scale of music events, there's a lot of people who would be willing to make changes and take new actions based on the invitation of an artist they really care about.
Hannah Brainard
Wow, yeah, that's substantial. Just out of curiosity, did you see any differences between any demographic groups, music genres, or anything like that?
Li-Ya Mar
That's a great question. So we had some demographic questions. And then what we found really whether fans are actually going to take an action when being invited by artists or when asked by artists really depends on their existing view of climate change. So that Yale question, right? And that's the primary indicator of whether they're going to actually take action. But within the demographic questions, we found that, you know, there is a tendency that younger generations, younger people are more open to ideas of receiving this type of information in a live event space. They are more likely to say, “Yes, I support them.” So we see this type of preference over advocacy across a lot of the issues, right, younger people understand the intersection, or the relationship between a lot of these issues. And most of them are in favor of using whatever platforms or whatever resources that we have to gather attention, to gather support, and to enhance and help move forward movement. That's one of the things. The other, I'm not quite sure if our data actually support a lot of the relationship between, you know, even their race, gender, or income, and stuff like that.
Caleb Johnson
One of the big demographics, as well, is to note political leanings. We purposefully, in this research process, put a political question at the very end of the survey because there's a lot of research out there that says, if you ask somebody, “what's your party?” or “what is your political orientation?” or however you want to ask that. If you ask that first and then ask about climate, you’ve shortcutted all the thinking about - how do they genuinely, as an individual, think about this issue. So we put this question at the very end to see if we could find some patterns around political leaning. And we did see that people who would identify as leaning more liberal, would be more supportive of artists speaking out on this issue. Also just more supportive of artists speaking out, in general, about a wide variety of issues, compared to people who would lean more ideologically conservative.
Li-Ya Mar
And one thing I also want to add on - so we touch on there, there's a variety of actions that we actually tested, right? Ranging from talking to family and friends about climate change to voting for a particular candidate because of climate stance to, you know, attending a protest. Even for fans and respondents with a more conservative leaning, they still support the artists reducing their emissions of tours. So that really touched on the fact that a lot of these fans, they might not support artists speaking up about this in the space, but they are in support of “you want to reduce your own emissions of the tour. Great, you go ahead and do it.”
So this is one of the things that we're trying to tweak. But we think that there is a way for a more conservative audience to actually pay attention to this issue, right? Like that can be a very good first step to say that, “Hey, this is what I'm doing for my tour.” This is what you might be able to do as well.” But then not specifically touch on climate change, but to say that “This is my responsibility. I'm showing this to you.” And maybe down the line, maybe not right away because of people's political leanings, right? But it may be down the line, there's a way to engage them to their preference, and to whatever they see is appropriate for that space.
Caleb Johnson
Yeah, one place, I want to tag on to what Li-Ya's saying here about this idea of reducing emissions and waste. This is something that's been happening in touring, in the music industry. And a lot of industries are starting to look at - how can they make their processes more sustainable? And one of the things that we really wanted to focus on in this project is - okay, how do we move fans, but also how do we move the music industry towards actions that have the ability to scale in the timeline that we need?
So, reducing emissions and waste on tours is great, just as much as recycling - or, I like to compost - and like, all these other ways that we can take individual responsibility for our lives are really important. But with the scale of change needed, and the primary sources of emissions targets, and where those reductions can occur, what we really need to see is more mobilization of people into social and civic types of action that put pressure on decision makers.
So a lot of our research was really looking at - how do we promote that kind of behavior from the fans and from the artists? Because even this kind of advocacy is, in a sense, that type of step going from backstage sustainability to mainstage advocacy for the artist so that fans are empowered to go from privately being concerned about climate change, but not talking about it to being publicly concerned about climate change. Willing to post about on social media. Willing to call the representative when there's a new climate bill on the floor. Willing to volunteer with an organization, or even protest for new legislation in their communities.
So the big focus that we're trying to see here is that - unlike, let's say, social media or other advocacy methods, which are really broad, they just hit everybody everywhere - concerts are in specific places at specific times. And they bring people from that specific area together. And so there's an ability for us then to connect those people to local organizations doing locally minded work. That, then, has the ability to be much more personal to fans, because it's helping to address climate change in their own backyard. It makes the issue more palpable, you know? It's not a problem over there. It's not a polar bear on an ice cap. But it's insurance rates are going up in my community because of fire risks. And now, in my specific community, people are losing their insurance left and right. That's a climate issue. But people aren't associating that directly with the climate issue. So when we have people together in a specific time in place, we can connect them with groups working on local issues, that then can scale up because of the concern and the passion of those fans in that space.
Hannah Brainard
That's incredible, and probably a tricky thing to do to connect this large scale concert with local action. I'm curious as you see this taking place, is there any like technology - you referenced social media - but how can that contribute to making this one moment last beyond the length of the concert?
Li-Ya Mar
I think that's a million dollar question. One thing we have done in our onsite research on the application part is utilizing QR code. What we found in our survey is that fans like to get information through their phone. And so, a QR code where the artist is calling attention to this QR code, or somehow it's displayed in a way that's attracting fans attention. Then, they can easily scan the QR code, and then have a couple of actions options that they can actually take. And then so in LA at Jingle Ball, we did that actually, with our co-founder, Adam Met from AJR. So basically, Adam did a video, 30 seconds, basically just saying that, “Hey, here's a way to make your community better! Take your phone out and scan this QR code.” So we actually made a video, and then we found that most of the fans, a lot of the fans actually scanned it. And then in that specific action, we have three action opportunities for fans to do. The first one is signing a petition. So I would say signing a petition gets most of the fans taking action, because it's quick. It's via link, right? And it's something that you can fill out within like 30 seconds, and then fans feel good about it. But they also saw Adam, that's the first option.
The second action option is registering to vote. That also ties into the time and space thing, because if fans know there's an election coming up, we would imagine that action will attract a lot of attention. But it just depends on whether there's an immediate election coming up.
The third action is volunteering with an organization. And that's the space piece, right? Because, as Caleb mentioned, artists travel to different places. There are many local issues that fans actually are aware of. So how do we actually showcase or pick an organization that speaks to most of the fans in that space? And then, you know, using a very limited time in a concert space to say that “this might be of your interest. Are you interested in volunteering with them?” So kind of answering your question two ways - one is utilizing a QR code or some kind of really quick platform digitally so that people can get their action done within 30 seconds to a minute. But then another piece is also making the action really relevant locally, and making them relatable, because, maybe not a lot of people care about the same issue in climate change. You might care about providing local gardens for affordable food, but I might care more about reducing or helping the city move towards a net zero future, right? Then how do we get this information sorted out so we can create the most impactful action opportunities in that space.
Caleb Johnson
I want to add too, social media is such an important tool to connect the campaign across the tour. And one of the big findings that came through our research was this consistent message from the fans that it's important for artists to be authentic, to lead by example. And when they engage in their advocacy, that it needs to come across as credible and genuine. So, a big part of that could be that social media is a space for artists who are privately concerned about climate change, to use social media to make that concern public, and to showcase the ways that they are taking personal responsibility for the kinds of actions that they're taking, the ways that they're using their influence to make changes. That way, when they do speak at a concert, it feels like an authentic expression of a real concern. So that the fans aren't necessarily caught off guard. But they see that artist now inviting them to participate in something that is already happening, and is being endorsed and validated by this person they really look up to. So social media, I think, is key to helping to do the storytelling that makes this advocacy work across the tour.
Li-Ya Mar
And I would also want to use Adam as an example. Like, we don't want to speak for him, but then Adam, on his own social media, he has been posting about his advocacy work, right? Like going to Congress, talking to senators from both parties, working on clean energy projects, and then going on to different speaking opportunities to talk about - not just Planet Reimagined - but, also about the importance of engaging more people in these types of federal government projects or engagements, right? In that way, really, a lot of his fans already see his existing efforts in talking about this issue. And, not just talking about it - actually practicing and doing that, right? I would imagine, and again, we don't have data to support that, but, this is qualitative stuff, right? At concerts, when we went to LA, when people see Adam on the screen, I would imagine a lot of Adam’s fans already connect him being in the video calling attention to whatever he has been doing on his social media platform. So whatever efforts, or whatever examples of leading by example, is helping artists to build that authenticity, build that quiet credibility, and to help people and fans to see that “you really care about this. So it's time for me, as your fan, to step up as well.”
Hannah Brainard
That's incredible. So, as you've talked with fans, and seen some of the findings, what's surprised you the most? Was there anything that you discovered that you just did not see coming at all?
Caleb Johnson
There's this big study that came out of like, I think in the last year, that basically said, The United States has this problem of not understanding that everybody else also cares about - they call it like “pluralistic ignorance” is the technical term. But basically, if you ask people, you know, how much do you think Americans support this policy, let's say it's a transition to renewable energy or it's the green New Deal. Americans will say it's something like 35 to 40% support, when actually the support for these policies is like 75 to 80%. So, it's completely inverted. And this is true across policies, across political orientation of the people being asked, and I was one of those people I did not recognize that this is not as polarized as politicians and news media would have you believe that it is.
Li-Ya Mar
Yeah, I think for me, it’s the fact that so many people we talked to onsite actually understand this as a systemic issue, that it requires actions and solutions that can be scaled. Which is great. But, at the same time when we ask these fans, “what kind of actions have you been taking?” So people understand this needs solutions and action that can be scaled, but the answer most people gave was personal choices, lifestyle choices. Recycling, I guess it works. Composting, I guess it helps. Or reducing my own water bottle. And this is not their fault, I want to really focus on this. This is not any individual’s fault. This is propaganda planted by the fossil fuel industry, right? Like BP, and Exxon, throughout the years - they've been talking about, “It's you who are responsible about this. You're responsible for this, so you should think about individual things.”
And again, the contrast is so striking. People understand this, but the actions that people are taking are not really up to that scale. I guess, for me, coming from an organizer background, it’s really to help people understand that now we need to move from individual action or lifestyle choices to things that can actually scale. Which is talking to policymakers, talking to decision makers, talking to your community, and thinking about how to organize and utilize that crowd power, right? And that's why we're doing this research, because we're looking at - even in the concert space, there are, you know, 50,000 people. If we just utilize or activate 1%, that's more than, you know, a lot of people can even imagine. And think about 50 cities across the entire nation. How many people can we actually motivate, engage and utilize? So, I guess it's a surprise for me to see that gap, but it also shows the opportunity to move more people into the movement.
Hannah Brainard
That's incredible. And just hearing you talk about it, it was so surprising to me to hear, again, that so many people think about this the same way. But we all think that we're alone in it. And there's so much power in these shared events, these shared opportunities to activate people to make changes and talk to their decision makers, not just recycle. So that's fantastic. So just my last question for you both. What's next? How do you hope to see some of this fantastic information used?
Caleb Johnson
So there is stuff in the works that we can't fully speak about. But it's very exciting. We are in negotiations to take this on the road and actually road test this on a tour across the country. So, you will be hearing about that soon. But we're also looking at - how does this possibly work in other live event spaces? We focused this research on concerts, but could it work at sports events? That's another space that still brings communities together and also attracts different audiences. So we can really interact with unique groups of people in these different kinds of settings. So it's not just the concerts, we're hoping to see how this research might fit, and also support other types of cultural influencers in effective campaigns in other major events.
Li-Ya Mar
Yeah, and we have our report coming out in April. So I would encourage everybody listening to go to Planet Reimagined, somewhere mid-April to get a full understanding of what we have done and understand. Or like, just be curious, right? This is a space that we see a lot of people happily go to. Whenever we think about a concert, it's usually like, “Okay, here's a way to donate to this thing.” And then, we're saying that your donation is great, because every organization needs money - but, at the same time, there are other ways to actually contribute.
And that's why I think this is like the golden opportunity. We're showing people that wherever you are, whatever background you're coming from, if you love music, you love going to music spaces or live event spaces - there is a role for you to play. Even if you don't like to. You like watching sports at home or watching concerts at home - who likes that? But, there are also opportunities for you to take action because we really need as much help and as much engagement as possible to solve this crisis and I think we really could. As an organizer, we know we have to. We could, we could. So there are many opportunities. And, come read our report! It's short. That's our goal, so everybody can actually easily read it. It's easy to understand. And then using this as a resource to think about - how do you engage more people in your own community, not just in music spaces?
Hannah Brainard
That's great. Well, thank you so much for your time and for this great information. It's been such a joy to talk with you.
Li-Ya Mar
Thank you, Hannah.
Caleb Johnson
You as well.