In this episode, Victoria Sprowls interviews Rachel Hite, the Advancement Officer at the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh and Liz McFarlin-Marciak, the Director of Major and Planned Giving at the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank. Conversations touch on the pros and cons of virtual benefits, the case they both make for giving at their non-profits, and the most helpful technologies for planned giving - including some advice about crypto-giving.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 0:02
There is a movement starting in just the philanthropic sector called community-centered fundraising, which is kind of questioning some of the traditional modes of donor-centric fundraising, which I think they can both live together, that it's not one or the other. But it's this idea of kind of really challenging where wealth has come from in our country especially and that a lot of wealth has been generated on the backs of marginalized communities, which I think is really, really important to start thinking about.
Victoria Sprowls 0:29
Welcome to an interview episode of Tech in the Arts, brought to you by the Arts Management and Technology Lab at Carnegie Mellon University. My name is Victoria Sprowls, the Podcast Producer, and today I will be speaking with Rachael Hite, the Advancement Officer at the Andy Warhol Museum here in Pittsburgh, and Liz McFarlin-Marciak, the Director of Major and Planned Giving at the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank. Thank you both so much for taking the time to be here today.
Rachel Hite 0:52
Thanks for having us.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 0:53
Thanks for having us.
Victoria Sprowls 0:54
Have you seen similar patterns in your organizations to the trends in giving nationally, with significantly more giving during the height of the pandemic and less so in 2022?
Rachel Hite 1:03
So I will say, the caveat that I work primarily with individual donors, but I - anecdotally it feels to me that corporate giving is way down. Which feels counterintuitive, given what we know about how well corporations have been doing in the last couple of years.
Victoria Sprowls 1:20
Very true.
Rachel Hite 1:21
But I did see a big increase in individual giving at the height of the pandemic, I feel like people really took it as a call to action. And some of our, you know, our stalwart donors really stepped up to the plate. And I wouldn't say there's a decrease necessarily, but it's it's more event-motivated at this point. I would say.
Victoria Sprowls 1:41
So kind of a flattening of, you know, there's no, there's not really spikes in giving anymore, except if it's surrounding an event.
Rachel Hite 1:48
Yes, yeah, I think people are ready to get out on the town.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 1:52
It’s really interesting because I switched jobs during the pandemic. So I was formerly at the Carnegie Museums where Rachel works now and then switched to human services. And food banking, in particular, has seen a ridiculous increase in support. It's all of that crisis support that we typically see in times of heightened need. And so everything just spiked dramatically. And it's been really interesting because we've been having a hard time trying to figure out where are we going to normalize? Like, we know, we're going to normalize, there's going to be a normalization - that's really standard with crisis fundraising. And we're just now starting to see things normalize on all fronts, I'd say corporate and foundation for us is normalizing sooner than with individual giving, kind of for the same reasons that Rachel mentioned - individuals are just amazing and are continuing to be generous in so many ways during this time period. But we kind of expected that. So we're seeing it, but we're still kind of ending up where there's a larger increase than pre-pandemic times.
Victoria Sprowls 2:52
That's really heartening to hear. Especially as everything in the news today is all about inflation and how horrible the economy is doing that people still find, you know, not only the time but the resources to give
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 3:04
Absolutely.
Victoria Sprowls 3:05
More so for Rachel, while museum membership acquisition is often generated on-site in order to support the organization or gain immediate benefits, like discounts in the gift shop, what are the patterns you're seeing for acquisition and retention, as we emerge from the peak of the pandemic?
Rachel Hite 3:21
I do love a gift shop discount? I'll say that. I mean, there was an enormous dip in membership, of course, and I was at a different Museum during the beginning and peak of the pandemic, but people are coming back. And I mean, as I mentioned, I think people are really, I mean, of course, COVID is not over. But people are ready to leave their houses and go do things. And I think that's motivating. We're getting back up to our pre-pandemic membership numbers. And we actually, the Carnegie museums took the time to kind of reevaluate what our role in the community is. And we've introduced a couple of new types of memberships that are doing really well we have a free teen membership that is wildly exceeding our expectations. So yeah, it's definitely increasing back up to and even surpassing pre-pandemic levels.
Victoria Sprowls 4:13
Yeah, that's great. I know that during the pandemic, a lot of organizations took a look at DEAI work in a greater way. And even if you do have the free teen program, you know, attracting younger people that then eventually get paying jobs and will be paying customers.
Rachel Hite 4:29
Yeah. Create- you know, starting the philanthropist young we love it.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 4:33
I just think to like, because I was definitely there when we took like the biggest hits on membership. And there's a lot of stuff that happened most membership acquisitions actually happens through direct mail. There's like a huge, huge direct mail program happening behind the scenes. So a lot of on-site conversions - I think there's a misconception that that's like the only way that museums acquire new members. Probably the most true of the science center of all the four Carnegie Museums, they just they probably took a huge hit in on-site acquisition for membership. But I, it kind of leads into the next question too, because I think the virtual benefits was probably a way that the museums really kind of pivoted during the pandemic to actually, like, bring back.
Victoria Sprowls 5:13
For listeners, my next question is, what are the pros and cons of virtual benefits?
Rachel Hite 5:17
I mean, the obvious, most enormous pro is accessibility.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 5:22
Absolutely.
Rachel Hite 5:24
I mean, we were able to welcome people from all over the world. And it's, you know, it removes the barrier to entry, like museums are physically intimidating places. And if you're not, you know, you don't grow up with access to them, it can be hard to even walk in the door. So offering virtual programs, people can kind of get more used to what their local museum is offering them.
Victoria Sprowls 5:45
Yeah, I know, I often even feel like, I know the Met Gala just happened when we're recording this. And I'm always like, "Oh, yes, fancy museum gala events that I cannot go to." Rachel Hite 5:56 But would love to go to...
Victoria Sprowls 5:57
Yes.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 5:58
Yeah. I mean, it's just so interesting. I think, actually, this is relevant for having Rachel as a co guest on this one with me, because I actually think some of the stuff the Warhol did during the pandemic, virtually, was amazing. They did a lot of - school tours are probably one of the biggest things that the museums here in Pittsburgh do and around the country. And I remember the staff was so ingenious at the Warhol. Education staff, they literally propped up like an iPad on a roving cart, and were able to take schools who were in Florida, not even locally, through this amazing museum and have this incredible, like content that is paired with this experience. And like, look at that. It was Why did it take us a pandemic, to really start thinking about how amazing virtual programming can be? And what benefit it can be to just people who don't live locally? I mean, incredible.
Victoria Sprowls 6:47
Do you see those trends staying? Because I know we did just have David Nutt on the podcast, and he was talking about how the Lyric Opera -
Rachel Hite 6:55
Love David.
Victoria Sprowls 6:55
- yeah, they all graduated in the same year listeners. So he was talking about how the Lyric Opera did a lot of pandemic programming, or did at least some pandemic programming, but that, you know, now that the pandemic is, quote, unquote, like, not over, but people are opening up again, that they weren't going to do that going forward. So are you seeing those trends continue?
Rachel Hite 7:15
We definitely at the Warhol, I mean, like Liz was saying that those education programs were so impactful, and well done. And I certainly think we will continue those, I hope so.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 7:27
It feels like it's a hybridized world that we're gonna be living in going forward, where not having - being thoughtful about either having still full virtual programming or having a virtual option feels like you're leaving engagement on the table. From a fundraising perspective, we know that we might be able to reach more people. And not just people who don't live in Pittsburgh, but people who are busy who are working who have jobs, or who might not just feel comfortable coming in person, for reasons that are unrelated to the pandemic. So we still see a lot of value. And there's lots of pros to virtual. The cons for us at the food bank, obviously, our location, we're in Duquesne PA, which is about a mile from Kennywood. It's a little out of the way becaus we're huge warehouse. So we need a lot space, so. It's not like the most accessible place to come and visit us all the time. So virtual programming is really important for us and kind of helps with that, like location challenge. It's just nothing can replace face to face, though. So like, we're happy that face to face feels safer now, and we feel that people are more comfortable doing it. You just can't replace that
Rachel Hite 8:32
No. And the way I like to fundraise, I just, I'm so grateful to be able to, you know, go take someone out to a cup of coffee and have a conversation. It's completely different.
Victoria Sprowls 8:42
So speaking of fundraising, what do you think about Yellowstone National Parks $1,500 Inheritance Pass, which is essentially “…an annual pass valid in 2172—and a complimentary annual pass to enjoy the park now, valid for the next year,” as a method of fundraising. Liz McFarlin-Marciak 9:01 So I had never heard of this until you shared it with us.
Victoria Sprowls 9:04
Okay.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 9:05
It was super interesting. And I sent it immediately to my colleague who works in annual giving at the food bank. My brain is like, the practical stuff. How is this gonna work? Like what all that - if you scale that back? Obviously, the promotion and marketing are beautiful, the park is incredibly beautiful. I just think they should have used it more for planned giving than, annual giving.
Rachel Hite 9:26
Yeah.
Victoria Sprowls 9:26
Okay explain that a little further.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 9:28
So if they're, basically it's if you give a $1,500 gift a year, you're getting this inheritance pass that you can use and pass down through your family, which is an amazing concept. It's just do you then have to do that every single year from an annual giving standpoint?
Victoria Sprowls 9:43
Instead of a one-time...
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 9:44
Instead of a one-time if you're making like an estate commitment, which all ties into the whole legacy stuff. That seems like a better fit for using that from a technical standpoint in fundraising. But the - I mean, I love anything related to multi-generational philanthropy. So I think the concept is like really intriguing.
Rachel Hite 10:02
I get what they're doing. Like it's a profound statement like you're investing in, in our environment and our natural resources now so that your future family can enjoy it. It's a nice story they're telling with that.
Victoria Sprowls 10:15
But I think you are right, that it would have been better for planned giving, right. Especially as you know, I hear just on podcasts and in the news, all the time from organizations that say that planned giving is so much, you know, more efficient and better, and just allows the organization to plan better for the future.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 10:35
Yeah, and I mean, just thinking about too, again. It's, it's interesting, it's hard for us like fundraisers to look at some of that stuff. Because I feel like our tendency is just like pick it all apart. Some of the language that they use is like your $1,500 will help support preservation 150 years... I'm like no they're using that $1,500 in their current year operating budget. Like that's not, it's not like technically what's happening...
Victoria Sprowls 10:57
A little bit between the marketing and the actual implementation.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 11:01
So I just don't - wonder how -I'm concerned about that in terms of renewing and retaining annual donors at that $1,500 level is like my biggest concern with it. But as a concept, I think it's a really unique, and I love the idea of like providing something tangible that can then be like this heirloom that you pass down through generations, that is very cool.
Victoria Sprowls 11:22
Historically, religious groups have received the largest annual share of charitable donations. What is the case that you both make for giving at your nonprofits? And how do you motivate support from individuals as we move from a pandemic, into a period of higher inflation - as I was talking about.
Rachel Hite 11:38
I will say that, in my previous role in Chicago, when the pandemic hit, we did have a little bit of a, what are we really asking you to do right now, like, you know, it's a museum. And of course, I obviously think museums are fundamental to our communities. But it felt a little unimportant for a while there with everything going on. But I will say the Warhol is, is doing some very exciting community-based stuff. Stay tuned, May 20th, for an exciting announcement. But the way we're motivating people and part of what I love about Pittsburgh specifically is people are really committed to investing in our community assets. And that's what I've had the most success with.
Victoria Sprowls 12:24
I've really never seen a city that has so much city pride. Yeah.
Rachel Hite 12:28
Exactly! That's why I wanted to come back and work here in fundraising. It's people and young people in particular, are really - it's important to them to preserve what makes our city so great.
Victoria Sprowls 12:39
Yeah.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 12:39
I mean, I think there's like a reason why religious organizations receive the highest share of funds from individuals. There are like positives and negatives behind that reason. So I'm just gonna focus kind of on like the positives for this. And that's really that it's like built into the teachings, the importance of, of helping others - is an important tenant, I believe, in most, if not all religions. So from my perspective, I mean, obviously, working in a human services organization now, like, we have seen people shift their philanthropy maybe away from arts and culture to helping with this basic need. I think it's just really important that philanthropists find their purpose and use their purpose to really drive impact through their philanthropy and like, stick with it. You know, if you're, I've talked recently with like a local wealth management advisor, who always advises her clients, like try not to deviate from what your core values are, even in times of crisis, because clearly those core values mean something to you and are important. So when we think of like, you know, the whole entire sector of Pittsburgh, the nonprofit sector thrives and is better because of people giving to all different types of things, and giving through what they truly believe in. And I really, really believe that so I've experienced, both in the arts and in human services that, you know, if you're really, like true and genuine, working with donors, and helping them find maybe a cause to give to you, that's not your organization. That's great. Because we all do better, and we all thrive better. And everything - the whole is like super interconnected, absolutely. It's interesting, we think of like food and the arts, it's like thinking about the whole person, we want the whole person to thrive, whether it's just a basic need, like food, or whether it's something like education and access to cultural resources. So, you know, all in all, we just, yes, there is like, obviously, a breakdown of where most people give their money. But at the end of the day, I just want people to give money.
Victoria Sprowls 14:31
No, I like that. I like the "a rising tide lifts all ships" kind of mentality.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 14:35
Absolutely, yes.
Victoria Sprowls 14:36
What are the biggest changes you've seen in philanthropy and planned giving surrounding DEAI initiatives, especially since the pandemic?
Rachel Hite 14:44
So many new grants available.
Victoria Sprowls 14:46
Okay.
Rachel Hite 14:47
Yeah, and I mean, I don't work in grants, but foundations and government, I think are giving a lot more specifically to those initiatives.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 14:55
I think this start this movement started in pre-COVID I believe, but there is a movement starting in just the philanthropic sector called community-centered fundraising, which is kind of questioning some of the traditional modes of donor-centric fundraising, which I think they can both live together, that it's not one or the other. But it's this idea of, kind of, really challenging where wealth has come from in our country, especially and that a lot of wealth has been generated on the backs of marginalized communities, which I think is really, really important to start thinking about, and also acknowledging that a lot of philanthropists are white, and how does that play into white saviorism and poverty tourism, there's like a lot of, lot of interesting pieces that have come out that are, are challenging to deal with as a fundraiser who, you know, we've worked in a time where that's not kind of like the focus, but it's really important conversations that I think everyone's having now. And I think our role as fundraisers is shifting a little bit for the better, where you know, our focus, if we're doing our job, we are true partners, facilitating a relationship between donors and the organization we work for, and it behooves us, to be honest about things. So at the food bank, you know, we're really looking at the root causes of food insecurity. And there's a lot of parts of that that have to do with systemic racism and poverty that have affected more people than they have others for really not great reasons. And I think it's important when we talk to donors that, yeah, we need to put more resources into communities that have had that - who have been historically excluded. So it's an interesting time to be a fundraiser. And I'm glad that these shifts are happening. Me too. There's a lot more motivation. And people are, have educated themselves and are ready to make different and better, maybe, choices about how they're giving. And I will add that I am very pleased. Both museums I've worked at in the past couple of years, we have paid internships now, which is just critical.
Victoria Sprowls 16:56
That's amazing. Especially I know for the nonprofit sector has not always been the case.
Rachel Hite 16:59
Absolutely not. You know, it's, it's so important to increase access to these opportunities by paying people for their time.
Victoria Sprowls 17:08
Yeah, definitely. And then, last question: what are the most helpful technologies for you in your work? And if you were to look into the future, do you see any big changes at the intersection of technology and planned giving/fundraising in the future?
Rachel Hite 17:23
I am going to sound like a big nerd. I love Razor's Edge.
Victoria Sprowls 17:27
Razor's Edge?
Rachel Hite 17:28
Yes, right. Yeah, I get, I get that laugh a lot. It is our donor management database. And I've used it at all of my fundraising jobs. It, when used correctly, the data is so valuable. I love it.
Victoria Sprowls 17:44
Okay, so why are you laughing about this?
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 17:47
It's a nerdy...
Victoria Sprowls 17:48
It's just nerdy?
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 17:49
Yeah. I mean, there's a whole science behind fundraising that I think people don't really, unless you work in the sector, know about. It's not just like fluffy galas and talking to people over coffee. There's like an actual structure of how we, you know, identify people who could be potential prospects, how we prioritize how we track movement through solicitations, cycles, cultivation cycles, it's really interesting. So having like good processes will make whatever system, like Razor's Edge, that you end up using better. So really like that process part, and leaning into the process part is...
Rachel Hite 18:25
Data hygiene.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 18:26
Yes. And being kind of - data-informed decision making is actually really critical. I mean, I can give an example at the food bank. I mean, in the pandemic, we added 45,000 plus new donors, which is absolutely insane.
Victoria Sprowls 18:41
That's a lot.
Rachel Hite 18:42
That's incredible.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 18:43
And we have a team of about sixteen people who work in fundraising, but it's just me and my two wonderful teammates, Erin and Harmony, who are just working through all these individuals, families, and family foundations like we can't work with every single person in the exact same amount of time. And so we have to prioritize. And that's where having like good systems is really, really important.
Victoria Sprowls 19:06
Yeah, using the technology to kind of decide where to put your resources and time.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 19:12
Yeah, because at the end of the day, we we need to do what's best for the organization and ultimately, the people we serve. So we need to make sure that we're putting our resources where we're going to have the biggest impact on the community. So that's super important. I definitely am nerding out about some tech pieces for sure. I do a lot of non-cash asset-giving at the food bank. And so working with people on their estate plans. Freewill is definitely one of my favorites right now. They're like a tech company that has started in the last couple of years and they help people literally just make free wills online. Oh, it's really cool. And we've actually we think we officially hit the like 1 million mark in new commitments working with this one vendor since July of last year. So I'm really excited about that and I'm, I'm pretty interested in crypto at this point too.
Victoria Sprowls 20:02
In fundraising?
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 20:03
Yeah.
Victoria Sprowls 20:04
Ooh, tell me more.
Rachel Hite 20:06
We're starting to accept, well working through the vehicle to accept crypto for memberships?
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 20:13
Oh, that's cool. That's really cool. Same, we're exploring avenues right now, working with a third party, to set up an acceptance for crypto. It's one of like, the fastest rising mediums for young philanthropists, which is interesting. It's super volatile and who knows what the future really holds.
Victoria Sprowls 20:32
But, you know, if they want to give they can give.
Rachel Hite 20:33
Yeah!
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 20:34
Absolutely! I think it's - that's like probably one of the things to pay attention to now. Even like Venmo and PayPal having like, think of like, how do people give? And how do you make sure that you as a nonprofit, have those vehicles to accept and acknowledge gifts in the way that people want to make them?
Rachel Hite 20:53
We're leaving money on the table if we don't make giving as easy as possible.
Victoria Sprowls 20:58
Yeah, I like that.
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 21:00
It's also too, there's so much research, specifically on non-cash giving. So you think like stocks, or crypto, or people who use their IRAs to give - usually give more. Like the high, the average gift is higher, which is really interesting. So yeah, those are probably the biggest areas that we're kind of paying attention to for the future of thinking of like, what types of other non-cash assets and how can we really engage people to give through those mediums?
Victoria Sprowls 21:29
Well, thank you. Yeah, that was incredibly informative. I had no idea about the about, you know, cryptocurrency and fundraising. Yeah. And thank you so much for being here today.
Rachel Hite 21:38
Thank you. It was fun!
Liz McFarlin-Marciak 21:39
Thanks for having me.
Victoria Sprowls 21:40
Yeah. Thank you for listening. If you found this episode, informative, educational, or inspirational send this to another arts aficionado in your life. You can let us know what you thought by visiting our website: amt-lab.org. That’s A-M-T dash L-A-B .org. Or, you can email us at amtlabcmu@gmail.com. You can also follow us on Twitter @TechintheArts, or on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at Arts Management and Technology Lab. We'll see you for the next episode.