In this episode, Victoria Sprowls interviews Theo George, a Masters of Arts Management alumni here at Carnegie Mellon, and the current Director of Marketing and Communications at SNF Parkway Theater, which is also the home to the Maryland Film Festival. Conversations touch on the challenges of running an independent movie theater, how to instill a sense of community into the movie-going experience, and what the future of movie-going might look like given day-and-date movie releases on streaming services.
Theo George 0:00
So I'm really interested in that from the perspective of filmmakers shooting these things in VR and people experiencing moving image work and movies in VR, whether it's a headset or you know, however they they do that, but I'm really interested in how that's gonna play out.
Victoria Sprowls 0:19
Welcome to an interview episode of Tech in the Arts, brought to you by the Arts Management and Technology Lab at Carnegie Mellon University. My name is Victoria Sprowls, the Podcast Producer. And today I'm talking to Theo George, a Masters of Arts Management alumni here at Carnegie Mellon, and the current Director of Marketing and Communications at SNF Parkway Theater, which is also the home to the Maryland Film Festival. Theo, thank you for joining us.
Theo George 0:43
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Victoria Sprowls 0:44
Yeah. So I'll start off. In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges of running an independent movie theater?
Theo George 0:51
Yeah, so we're getting to the hard-hitting stuff, right away? I like it. I like it. So when reflecting on this, I kind of thought of four major themes, I think. Some maybe obvious, some maybe not so obvious. The first one: access to streaming services, like we all know, people have Netflix...
Victoria Sprowls 1:10
You're jumping ahead of me. That was gonna be another question.
Theo George 1:13
I'll come back to that but that, was like a serious challenge to grapple with, yep. So just like thinking about how to present the value of going to the movies is a whole thing, especially as an independent theater, because we don't have all of the like, biggest Marvel releases, which I think the bigger superhero ones are really driving people to go back to the theaters. Yeah, totally. We don't have like the Dolby room sound or an IMAX, you know, all those add-ons that maybe a larger chain might have. So that's, that's in there as well. COVID-19? You know, that's a big one. And I'll come back to that as well. But it's really disrupted the pipeline for distribution. So there wasn't a lot of stuff being made during the pandemic, not that we're out of it. But, especially like the past few years, there just hasn't been a lot being made. So theaters are kind of scrambling fighting with each other to show the same small group of films. So that's in there. Also, one that folks may be not as familiar with is distribution and navigating distributors. So for example, Netflix is a distributor, Focus Features, A24, some of those big ones.
Victoria Sprowls 2:29
So building a relationship?
Theo George 2:32
Building relationships, you know, you can't just wake up and say, "Oh, I really want to play Star Wars today. Let me buy this from the film marketplace." Like there's a whole tangled web of like, certain theaters have certain relationships with distributors that are long-standing. So our theater’s only been open for about three years. It's been around for like, one hundred years or so. It's been open and shut.
Victoria Sprowls 2:57
Revamped, yeah.
Theo George 2:59
Like four different times I think.
Victoria Sprowls 3:01
Okay.
Theo George 3:01
So we are starting our relationships with distributors, and new. And we are right across the street, literally across the street from another independent movie theater.
Victoria Sprowls 3:12
Wow.
Theo George 3:13
Which presents its challenges. But I - we’re in an arts district. So...
Victoria Sprowls 3:18
Okay, so it makes sense - in that way.
Theo George 3:19
I think it's great. I think, you know, not everybody thinks that's great. But we all have something a little different to offer.
Victoria Sprowls 3:25
That reminds me of when you know, like the Flower District and how you just go to one area, and there'd be all the flowers in one area and all the clothes. Yeah.
Theo George 3:35
Indeed. Yep. So those are some of the challenges. Big and small.
Victoria Sprowls 3:41
How do you think movie theaters can remain competitive? Given the new practice of streaming services - I know you brought it up, right, offering movies on their platforms the same day as they release them in theaters?
Theo George 3:53
Yeah, it's a big one. And I think no matter if it's even like releasing it two months later, I think streaming services in general really present the same kind of fundamental challenge of almost like a value gap. So we have to kind of close that value gap. People wonder, why should I, by the time I bring my whole family it's like, a sixty dollar experience, you know, once you like add all the popcorn and all that stuff, when I can just pop my own popcorn at home and watch this on Netflix, like why should I go out? And that's really the fundamental question. I think that those of us on the marketing and communication side are grappling with. I don't know if you saw like the whole AMC has spent millions of dollars on this commercial campaign to kind of get people back
Victoria Sprowls 4:41
Is it the one with Nicole Kidman?
Theo George 4:42
Exactly.
Victoria Sprowls 4:43
Okay, so here's, here's where here's where I take issue with that is, is that and I was I was talking to some other people in my program about this. They are essentially preaching to the choir. Like you are telling people who are already in the theater, Oh, come to the theater and I'm like, I'm here. I don't understand why they don't have campaigns for, like on other platforms, not just within their own movie theaters.
Theo George 5:07
Yep. A hundred percent. I, it's a running joke almost. I've seen it. People, you know, just I think I've even seen like pins that people have that they hand out when people come in that's like, there's magic here. It's just so - definitely has become a running joke. And also just, you know, as you said, it's preaching to the choir, it's what is a magical experience? Like that's...
Victoria Sprowls 5:32
Especially at a larger chain?
Theo George 5:34
Yeah. Like, how do you get people to really get excited about oh, this is a magical - like Disney is magical. There's nothing really unique, I think when you kind of present it that way. So to me, and even what our theater does differently, which I can talk, when we get into the the branding conversation is almost thinking about it as being more than a movie theater. I think we all kind of have to evolve and adapt to everything that's going around, you can't just do the same old thing. Because obviously, as sales are telling many movie theaters like something's not working, so you gotta figure out new things. So I think it is important to kind of tap into the like connection and belonging and experience aspect of going to the movies, but I'm also interested in like other putting events around some movies having DJs playing when you're coming in. We have a lot of community conversations. So it's just it's a whole experience. It's not just going to watch something on-screen like you really getting the whole experience when you come in.
Victoria Sprowls 6:42
Events that would get people to talk to their friends and bring them, that kind of thing.
Theo George 6:46
Totally, yep, absolutely. I'm also interested in Moviepass too and it's a whole, a controversial...
Victoria Sprowls 6:53
I had Moviepass.
Theo George 6:54
Yeah, so many people did like I think so I'm a millennial, and I feel like nothing else drove millennial participation and going to the movies like Moviepass did. Like, for better for worse, that really got people excited. And I think for my generation and younger generation, the thought really is on the subscription model aspects. And I think people would really come out more if there was some kind of like, package subscription type of thing. So I'm interested in that. We have started having a little bit of conversations about that. Moviepass on the business side, like did not farewell for anybody.
Victoria Sprowls 7:35
Right. It was almost like, I've seen all those Twitter jokes like at the time about like, Moviepass walked so that AMC could run, yeah. With their, with their program.
Theo George 7:45
Exactly, yep. Which - I'm an AMC Stubs member and love it.
Victoria Sprowls 7:50
That's almost sacrilege. You can't say that.
Theo George 7:53
I know, I know. Edit that out. Andrew, edit that out.
Victoria Sprowls 7:56
So you were talking about how you have a competitor, basically, right across the street? How do you build brand loyalty to your movie theater? And what do you see as best strategies as we recover from the pandemic for for that kind of marketing?
Theo George 8:11
Yeah, so in our case, since we're a little on the younger side, the film festival...
Victoria Sprowls 8:18
You mean the management?
Theo George 8:19
Yeah, there our like independent theater really, that opened reopened in 2017? Something like that.
Victoria Sprowls 8:25
Oh, you mean like just the theater is on the younger side?
Theo George 8:28
Yeah. But managing, it's all very young, it's a toddler at this point. Whereas the film festival has been around for decades. This is the 24th annual. So it has a much longer track history, that kind of thing. So I think our brand is a little, we're working through a whole like brand identity process. Because there's a little confusion between is this the film festival is this - the Maryland Institute College of Art is literally next door to us.
Victoria Sprowls 9:01
Okay.
Theo George 9:01
So a lot of people are like, is this a MICA building? Like what is happening here? So we are, I would say working that out at the moment, I think, I think a branding is like internal-external elements. So we really got the external elements together like our, if you come into the building, it's gorgeous. The colors all work together, the fonts are - you know, all that stuff is working out. Which, in a lot of theatres, that's not maybe not necessarily the case. We had a lot of arts and creative folks working on our projects. But the internal side, so why are we here? What are our values? Those types of things, are conversations that maybe weren't fleshed out as much. So we're going through that and I think that that is one of the biggest ways to really figure out why am I here? What is the positioning? Like what makes us stand out? But it's also been good because as we've had those conversations, I think people were on the same page. It just hasn't been like collected in one place and all that. So for us, our, the biggest ways that we stand out and have built brand loyalty is through this, what we call an eventized model, which I talked about a little bit before. So other, most of the other theaters in town, you go in, you watch the movie, that's it. There might be a Q&A after at some point, but not usually. For us, we're doing that pretty much every month. I think before the pandemic, there was a lot more of that happening. So we're slowly adding that back in. But we did, for example, when the building reopened because we were closed for maybe a year or so during COVID. So when we reopened, we had Candyman, we had this amazing conversation with two folks about black speculative fiction and all that. So people, you know, they love coming out for that kind of stuff, because it provides more context for the movie experience. And a lot of people who are in our audience want to have a conversation about what they just saw and how it relates to them.
Victoria Sprowls 11:17
I think especially with the with the types of movies, you know, you said you don't really show the Marvel movies, which you know, is not the type of movie that afterwards, I need to have a long conversation about. Yeah.
Theo George 11:28
Exactly. Exactly, yeah. So that's the biggest way I would say we stand out. We're also doing exhibitions as well. We have some window exhibitions that we're opening because we have a lot of big glass windows.
Victoria Sprowls 11:44
Oh, nice. That's awesome.
Theo George 11:45
Yeah. So we had an RFP we put out and got a lot of great responses there, which is exciting. So we're really - we talked about being more than a movie theater. And again, in this day and age, you kind of have to be. And on the filmmaker side, I would say the brand loyalty is built. It's interesting. It's almost our film festival is almost more recognized globally than it is at home, which is an interesting conundrum. That is interesting. So we are really known as a festival for filmmakers. Filmmakers love coming in. We don't have a competition. So there's no prizes, no jury, nothing like that. This year, there's actually fourty plus members on the screening committee. So we put out a big call to the community. There was an application process if you wanted to watch the movies that come in through submissions, because there are like hundreds to get through. It's it's a lot of people sending things. Folks had the opportunity to apply for that role. So it's really the filmmakers, filmmakers, I think really love coming to to our festival. It's, I think it highlights their work in a way that you would think that other festivals would. But a lot of other festivals are all about distribution. I got to get my film shown on Netflix that kind of thing. Right. Being, being picked as the winner. Exactly.
Victoria Sprowls 13:13
Yeah. So going along with that. What elements do you take into consideration when selecting programming for the Maryland Film Festival?
Theo George 13:21
Yes, so I would say our programming team has always had an eye towards emerging, moving image work, emerging filmmakers doing feature lengths and short lengths. So this year, I think we have like 130 shorts that are being shown. Yeah. So they put them together in different blocks of programming. Like there's a “Balti” shorts track, which is shorts filmed - focused on Baltimore, which is cool that always sells out. There is like a queer stories one. There's a body in motion block, which is about shorts that kind of look at dance and that kind of thing. So we're really looking at emerging folks, we're looking at diverse stories, we really want to highlight that a lot more. I love this year's lineup is extremely diverse, and everything from ability to race to gender identity, all the all of the ways you can universe, which is great.
Victoria Sprowls 14:23
That's great to hear, because I was just at SXSW and I went to a panel that was talking about not only like having diversity in films, but having like a diversity of narratives, as well. And that there is a difference between the two.
Theo George 14:37
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think we've always been kind of focused on on getting that right.
Victoria Sprowls 14:43
You kind of touched on this a little already. But how do you envision the future of movie theater programming changing? Given films like CODA - just won best picture without any theatrical release at all?
Theo George 14:54
Yeah, CODA's an interesting case and in a lot of ways - so I saw it at Sundance when it premiered. I loved it. When I heard Apple bought it, I was so disappointed, because I just felt like, and I love Apple TV, their programming is actually pretty strong. But the marketing for Apple TV programming, I think hasn't they haven't quite built a name for themselves in the same way.
Victoria Sprowls 15:19
It's also very internal. Like, I only found out really that they have such such a broad range of programming when I was in the Apple Store. And they were showing a trailer like for their yeah, programming.
Theo George 15:30
Indeed. So when I heard CODA was going to Apple TV, I was thinking, I don't know that a lot of people are going to see it the same way that they would, on Netflix or Hulu or in the theater. So in some ways, I'm wondering how the folks at CODA feel about how that deal went now. You know, it did win the Oscar. So maybe there's more of a serenity.
Victoria Sprowls 15:55
Maybe they feel like okay about it now that they won the Oscars.
Theo George 15:58
But I still just think there would have been a larger conversation about it and a bigger opportunity for them to have a cultural impact if they had went with another distribution option. So I'm curious, you know, if folks will think in future festivals or whatever, "Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to take the same deal CODA did, because it didn't..." I don't know.
Victoria Sprowls 16:19
Yeah and we were just talking about, like diversity of narratives. And that's a great example. And yeah, to have, like a wider audience would have been great.
Theo George 16:26
Yes. And, you know, I think streaming, it's just another avenue for content too. So it's, it's great that it's provided this opportunity for creatives and makers and artists to put their stories out because obviously, it is hard to get your film shown in a theater, there's a lot of back ends that goes into that. So, I can see it going a lot of different ways.
Victoria Sprowls 16:52
So you were talking about how you have a lot of what did you call it event-
Theo George 16:56
It's like an eventized model.
Victoria Sprowls 16:58
Eventized model, right. So and you want to, you know, get the community - How do you define local community? And how does it impact the programming that you choose - you've touched a little on this as well.
Theo George 17:08
Yeah, it's an interesting question. And I think in the arts management world, there's kind of a new conversation happening in light of like, ongoing DEI initiatives about what is, I think the buzzword was kind of community outreach for a long time.
Victoria Sprowls 17:24
Ooh, yeah, I know that word.
Theo George 17:25
Which we all hated. You do not need to edit that out. You can put all of this in. I think community outreach has been really code for like, how do we get low-income black people to our programs, because we need to check off this grant requirement? For so many organizations, that's exactly what it is. We all know it.
Victoria Sprowls 17:45
Yeah, I actually, yeah, I think now that you're saying that I've definitely helped to like fill out those forms at programs. And yeah, that's probably why they were doing it. Yeah.
Theo George 17:55
Yes. So I think my approach to thinking about community and just marketing in general too, is to not really divide or separate the two. I'm marketing to whoever I'm marketing to - I don't. The community outreach part, I think we are thinking just more broadly about how can we be a good neighbor because our executive director always talks about how the community that we're in, in Baltimore, has struggled with a lot of things for for many different reasons for many different years. And they most likely could have used a grocery store and not an art-house cinema. But that is a lot of arts organizations. That's that's how it is. And we're there, we have an opportunity to even maybe we will show Spider-Man or the the Marvel movies because, for a lot of folks, there's no access to those types of experiences. It's a long way away to get somewhere to see Spider-Man. So we've had that conversation. But I think for us, it's just thinking about how can we be a good neighbor? Are we showing up for the neighborhood association meetings? Are we showing up when there's hearings about stuff and advocating are we actually living in the neighborhood?
Victoria Sprowls 19:13
So not only, you know, just marketing to try to get people to come in, but actually proving that you know, we live here too. We care about the same things that you do.
Theo George 19:23
A hundred percent. And I think we've also talked about having like a feedback loop or reciprocity in our programming. So there's not a lot of walls between when somebody watches something or when an artist is showing it like it's all kind of wrapped up in the same experience. We want to provide opportunities for audiences to give feedback to filmmakers, for filmmakers to take that in, which doesn't happen at a lot of theaters. We want to provide more opportunities for community members to actually participate in curating what's seen in the theater. I talked about the screening committee. How there's like forty-some people this year, from all walks of life, all different kinds of experiences with with movies. So we are constantly thinking about the definition of community and again, what it means to be a good neighbor and steward of our community.
Victoria Sprowls 20:18
So being that this podcast is named Tech in the Arts...
Theo George 20:20
Indeed.
Victoria Sprowls 20:21
...I have to ask you a question about tech. What are emerging technologies that you find are directly affecting your work? That tech could be anything from you know, social media, cryptocurrency, NFTs?
Theo George 20:33
Yes, yes, indeed. So the one that came to mind immediately, was actually VR, mainly because we have a film we just selected for the festival. It's called "We Met in Virtual Reality." I am so excited to see this. I can't remember where it premiered at. But it was basically shot entirely inside of VR, different worlds. So I think there's like a wedding scene, there's yeah, people were hanging out in all kinds of different virtual worlds. So I'm really interested in that from the perspective of filmmakers shooting these things, in VR and people experiencing moving image work and movies in VR, whether it's a headset or you know, however they they do that, but I'm really interested in how that's gonna play out. Sometimes, you know, trends fade or, and all that but I think that this is a promising one that might also help differentiate the movie-going experience and provide new avenues for people to enjoy moving image work. So that's what I thought of. I also am interested in TikTok, I probably sound like an aging Millennial. I think there was a interesting conversation when Sundance was happening, about Gen Z and below, not really talking about Sundance - if you went on TikTok, you probably didn't know that Sundance was happening. There just wasn't a conversation happening there. And just the power of the younger influencers, where they're having conversations about different events at, and how can we get them to have a conversation about what's going on and, in our theater, in our film festival. So I'm also interested in what the young people are doing.
Victoria Sprowls 22:19
Yeah. Well, if you're in the Baltimore area, the Maryland Film Festival starts April 27. And that film sounds really interesting. What What was it called again?
Theo George 22:27
"We Me in Virtual Reality."
Victoria Sprowls 22:29
"We Me in Virtual Reality." I'll have to check that out.
Theo George 22:31
Yes, please do.
Victoria Sprowls 22:33
Thank you so much for being here.
Theo George 22:34
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's great to be back.
Victoria Sprowls 22:38
Thanks for listening to the Tech in the Arts podcast. If you found this episode, informative, educational, or inspirational, send this to another arts aficionado in your life. You can let us know what you thought by visiting our website: amt-lab.org. That’s A-M-T dash L-A-B .org. Or, you can email us at amtlabcmu@gmail.com. You can also follow us on Twitter @TechintheArts, or on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at Arts Management and Technology Lab. We'll see you for the next episode.