This is part 2 of a two-part series. Read part 1 here.

In this episode Alyssa and guest co-host André Solomon sit down with Grace Stewart, the Diversity, Equity, Accessibility, and Inclusion Project Manager at the American Alliance of Museums. Together they will discuss the Alliance’s Facing Change Initiative and how the project is addressing equity in museums across the nation.

[Musical Introduction, fades out]

Alyssa: Hello, AMT-Lab listeners, and welcome to an interview episode brought to you by the Arts Management and Technology Lab. My name is Alyssa, and I am the Podcast Producer.

In this episode, I along with guest co-host André Solomon, sit down with Grace Stewart, the Diversity, Equity, Accessibility, and Inclusion Project Manager at the American Alliance of Museums. This is the second half of a discussion where we talk about the Alliance’s Facing Change Initiative and how the project is addressing equity in museums across the nation.

Please note that we are recording this episode as of April 10th, 2020, during the coronavirus pandemic. We are practicing social distancing by recording over Zoom. Therefore, you may hear differences in the audio quality, particularly as we switch from speaker to speaker.

We hope you enjoy the concluding half of this interview brought to you by AMT-Lab.

André: So, What are some of the methods the Initiative will use to evaluate their outcomes for the pilot program with all 51 museum participants?

Grace: Sure. So, this is a great question because we are reevaluating some of this. And so, as I mentioned in other points in our conversation, we really started out with our metrics being very output focused. And again, there are lots of reasons for that. It's easy to measure in the short term. This is a grant funded project, so we're having to report back to our funders about that progress. And so, what are the things you can measure: in three months, in six months in this work. And, those are all very numbers based. And so, a lot of our metrics right now are around how many museums participating, how many museums stay in the program. We expect that there will be some museums that leave the program for various reasons, which we have seen happen but, that's kind of a normal, natural, thing. A lot of them are for very outside reasons. So, looking at some of those things, there's some basic metric requirements for the program.

We asked every single museum to bring on a minimum of two racially diverse board members by the end of the program, which is right now December 2021. And so, that's one way that we will evaluate whether they did that. We're also asking them all to submit and for AAM to approve a diversity, equity, and inclusion plan specifically for their board. Because, what we often find is that even if you have an organizational plan the board isn't always included in that. And that, sometimes you're dealing with a very different culture on your board than you are in your organization and so wanting something that focuses specifically on the board. So those are some very, you know, kind of easy to measure outputs. How many museums did that? How many of their plans were approved? How many of them were ratified by the board? And then I think after that, we're now moving into how do we start to measure some of those outcomes. And some of that, again, is going to be a little bit more long term. We want to look at the retention of the new board members they bring on and their satisfaction on the board. Do they feel included? Do they share power? Because as we know, some, you may have a roomful of decision makers, but there's like a secret group that are actually the real decision makers. So, looking at, you know, who actually has power and who feels comfortable, you know, speaking up in a room to looking at some of those things, which will require different types of surveys. Also, seeing if it changes the perceptions of the institution within their community. So, looking back at some of that community assessment, let them decide how well this is working. Have they reviewed the plan? Do they feel like the plan actually represents them and provides the things that they need and want out of the institution? Is the institution relevant? Do they see themselves reflected on the board? So, looking at some of that community assessment piece, and then I think the other thing is, you know, because each inclusion plan equity plan for the museums will be different, it's going to include very specific goals that they set for themselves. So, no inclusion plan is going to look the same.

And so really, at the end of the day, what we're telling museums and we believe, we aren’t just telling them, that we want to help provide the tools, and the platforms, and the trainings, and the frameworks for you to meet your own goals. Right? Like, we're not here to tell you exactly what you should be doing. We can give you some guidelines, but in the end, it should be specifically for your institution. And so, some of the measurement about whether this program was successful, will be did the museums meet their own defined goals in their plan? Are they seeing progress are the things that they said are actionable in their plan, actually moving forward? And so, we will be relying on that feedback from the institutions about whether they are seeing progress is this helping them and so that's going to look very different for each institution. So, then you're really looking at, you know, how, how useful and how much have their plans been put into action. And so, that will start to be a measurement beyond that in the in the long term. What we're hoping this does is, of course, change, like close the racial leadership gap on museum boards. We're hoping that when we do another board survey in 10-15 years, that it's not quite as depressing as the last one, [Light Laughter] right. That some of those percentages have changed, and that they are consistent. So that maybe in five years we see an improvement, but there's we're not falling backwards, right, that it's a consistent growth.

And then, I think that we want to start to see the impacts of that moving throughout the organization. So, if you have boards that are centering equity, and they are the ones writing your strategic plans, and you know, approving your budget, how is that impacting the organization and the organization's operations and ability to center equity in their work. And so, the long term goal is that our communities will no longer feel disenfranchised, that they will be integrated into the institutions and that we will start to see the dismantling of white dominant culture in our institutions so that they are inclusive and that they are equitable, or they are at least moving into the direction of being more equitable. But again, that's a long ways out.

André: No, I really enjoyed that to especially your point on, kind of, there's definitely a difference between doing the diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility work and having it integrate with your museum. Because, it's, like, one thing to be, like, we're just doing this and it's kind of separate of the goals, missions, vision, values of a museum. But, there's just a beauty actually, when actually, when those both, like, come together, because, then you know that the museum actually is putting even a step forward and trying to make these things become a reality. Because, I think there can be a little bit inauthenticity, a little bit, when just trying to do it and not really integrating.

Grace: Yeah, and I think that's true. You know, when I was at the metal museum and I was over at the collections and exhibition department, you know, we were creating departmental strategic plans, right, that would uplift the overall organizational plan, and how we would plug into that. And, it was important to embed equity into that work. And so, within our department we were thinking about how does this show up in what we do, how do we think about equity when we're planning exhibitions, when we're curating, when we're doing research, when we're digitizing collections, when we're bringing in new objects into the collection. This isn't just the work of, you know, your chief diversity officer, if you are a large enough institution to have one of those. This is the work of everyone. And so, everyone needs to be engaged.

André: Yeah, I definitely agree. [Light Laughter] So now of course, we are currently experiencing a pandemic and the start of an economic recession, unfortunately. With this in mind, many arts organizations museums included are creating crisis management plans. However, equity needs to be a part of this plan, because a situation impacts people differently. For example, not everyone has stable internet access at home. And, we have to think about who might benefit and who might be marginalized. So, what would you recommend for strategies to put into an effective crisis management plan that considers equity?

Grace: So, I love this question, because I feel like the question answers itself in some ways. I think organizations should start by asking that question, by acknowledging that, you know, different communities, and we can separate that into all kinds of different categories, are going to be impacted and experiences crisis differently and that that may shift how people are experiencing it may evolve over time as they move through different categories. If you're employed now and you're unemployed later, your access may change. And so, I think, just asking that question is probably farther along than a lot of our institutions have been so far. And, you know, that's not to discount that a lot of them are asking that question, but I think just starting there is going to be helpful. And, thinking about that with every decision that you make. I would also take this moment to say that as we, in the same way that we talk about disaster plans, with museums and with any institution, the best time to create a disaster plan is before a disaster. It's really hard to create a disaster plan in the middle of a tornado.

Grace and Alyssa: [Laughs]

Grace: And similarly, I think there's a moment of recognition that if our institutions were centering equity, really, actually centering equity, they wouldn't need to think about a crisis management plan through a lens of equity because it would already be there. Right? They would, they wouldn't have to create an equity crisis plan. They could just create a crisis management plan and it would already be embedded in the foundation. So, I think what this does for us is it gives us, in a lot of ways, this opportunity, because it highlights the areas we need to improve in. One of our consultants mentioned that crisis, in this moment, is very much like a tsunami. That, before you ever get to the crashing waves, there's this moment where, like, the water recedes, and you get to see all the debris on the beach. Right? And that's what, that's where we are. Like, we are seeing all of the things that were there, that were hidden, that were issues, and, in a lot of ways, that's a great opportunity. So, I would say that as we think about our crisis management plan to recognize that opportunity and to start and to think about it in a number of ways. You're thinking about it in the short term, medium term and long term approach. And so, sometimes short term approaches you may recognize inequities, but you aren't set up to address them yet, but it's important to note that. And, because you can address them as you move forward, I think that, you know, some of the basic questions to ask in any decision making, and I think this applies to crisis management is, again, who is benefiting and who is marginalized in your community? Within your own organization? Right, we are seeing, you know, who are the folks that are getting laid off from museums right now? We're starting with our part time temporary contract employees. Who are those people? Are there commonalities among them? Are there racial commonalities among them? There are. And so, what does that mean? So, being able to recognize what those differences are, who's marginalized, and then as you're making decisions about what to do, who is at the table to make those decisions? Who is making decisions for whom? And, if you don't have that representation there, how do you get it? How do you engage with your community, so that you're getting real feedback about what people need, and you're not making assumptions about what those needs are as much as you can. And, if you can't do that right away, to be thinking about how you do that as soon as you can. I think, asking questions at every point, there's a lot of times where we assume that things are best practice, are the right ways to do things, because we've always done them that way. During a crisis, there's, we overemphasize a sense of urgency, which in some ways makes sense, you know, you need a quick response. But, what that does is it allows us to retreat into some of our entrenched ways that we might have already been making progress on. But, we might step back into old ways because they're more comfortable, and we can move more quickly from them. And so, being very aware of that, I think, is helpful and in as many ways as you can to push back against that, to try and do that.

I think writing out a list of questions that you might ask and, I, that, you know, starts with who's marginalized? How would this decision impact them? And what we often find when we think about universal design is if you center marginalized folks, it benefits everybody. So, often when we're dealing with a sense of scarcity, we look at the 80/20 model. And so, we say, “Okay, well, if we're reaching like 80 percent of our audience in our community, like we're doing well.” and the other 20 percent is like, special programs, special outreach, extra, the bonus. But, if we flip that and we say, “Actually, let's center the 20 percent.” everyone's going to benefit from that. We see that all the time with universal design. There's lots of examples of that when you think about text messaging being created for people with audio differences, their audio abilities. Everybody texts its great. I don't always want to get on the phone with someone, right. That benefits everyone. Sidewalks, You know, are something that was created specifically for folks in wheelchairs. Everybody benefits from sidewalks. You said, it's snowing in Pittsburgh. Sidewalks are often the only place that’s shoveled. The only place you can walk, right? So, we can try and think about who's marginalized and how do we center them, it's going to create a more equitable plan for everyone. So, I think that that's one thing to really focus on in this immediate moment. I think the other thing that when we're thinking about moving forward, right, because there's that kind of immediate response, and now I think we're all kind of starting to settle into this place of, Okay, now what, what do we do now? We've been doing our physical distancing. We've been, you know, our museum or our institutions have been closed. We're starting to think about what happens when we reopen. And so, this is a really great time to think about how you want to reopen. What are the things you want to leave behind and what are the things you want to embrace new? So often when we think about any kind of plan when this is true for an inclusion and equity plans or any kind of work we're doing, we often think about equity as new things. Right? It's this thing that we're going to add, it's going to make organizations better. But, a lot of equity work is about removing. It's the pruning of the things that already exist that are barriers, and that is the hard part. Because, that's the part that's uncomfortable. We've been doing great work as art’s organizations. We improve the world around us. We are great for our communities. And so, it's challenging to look at our good work and try and figure out what parts aren't as good as we thought, or what parts are only good for some people. And so, really equity work is about looking at those things. And, how do you dismantle those things so that you're not building new things on top of foundations that are built on colonialism, that are built on white dominant culture, that you can start to build on a foundation that has examined those things. And so, I think taking this moment when we're pausing a little bit to look at that. And, to look at what was revealed in this moment, and to decide what to subtract, before you add on, I think is, is really important. And, I think when I started to think about it that way, it really changed how I thought about what equity work could be in my organization.

I Hope. did that answer the question? Sorry. [Inaudible]

Alyssa: Absolutely, yes. [Laughs]

Alyssa:  Oh, my goodness, there's, there's a lot to unpack there. And, I'm learning, like, so much, like, from all of the answers that you have here. I like I'm glad that we're recording this because otherwise I'd be taking notes like crazy.

All: [Laughs]

Alyssa: Oh, my goodness. All right. Um, let's see.

I'm pretty much good. André, did you want to add anything before I go into the quick outro?

André: Yeah, I mean, I'm, really quick. Like, I've just been thinking about how I mean, I've been thinking about all these things that are emerging, especially just in America, and things are being exposed. And, not that I'm trying to be weird about it, but I kind of like it just because, you know, it's, I think, these things have to be uncovered to only, you know, move forward. And so, thank you for talking about, like, the whole tsunami thing. Because, I think that's just really valid, kind of, exposing ourselves even though it is uncomfortable. One question that I have in particular, is just kind of talking about like Internet access, because, like, we kind of joked about it, but I'm even thinking to myself as a student, and how last year my laptop was, I was ready to chuck it out the window. Because it's just being that slow and thinking about if I had that resources now, like, and I would say, again, I'm very, you know, I have my own privileges too, but I think about people who maybe who have my computer last year [Internet Drop] connected? And so how do we kind of go around that barrier? Because, you know, people are trying to put online museums and virtual things and do meetings. And, I just think even that is a barrier of equity. And, that's like the most front facing one just because of what we have to do to kind of adapt.

Grace: Yes, I think it's a challenge. And, I think it's something that everyone is grappling with. And quite frankly, I think that people weren't fully recognizing before. They're, like, what the digital divide really is. I think that there's this assumption that like, everyone has internet access. Everyone has computers and devices that can access the free Wi Fi that might be available somewhere. And, that is not true. So, I think that we're having a moment of being able to be really honest about that that's not true. And, then I think kind of working backwards, you know. What is the situation that we want to change, and like, how did we get here? You know, every system is explicitly designed to create the results that it creates. They may not be the results that you wanted to create, but like the systems create the results, and they were made to do so. And so, how do you change the system? What are the things that we can do? And you know, I don't necessarily have an answer for, you know, what do we do about the digital divide in this moment, but I think we start by asking the question, we start by recognizing the issue, and we start working backwards to say, what systems gave us this outcome. What is the design of those systems that lead us to this moment that we can go back and prune and subtract from and rebuild from to give us a different outcome? And honestly, if we can start there, we still are many steps ahead of where we were before. Awareness is the beginning of the journey. So, if this moment allows us to be more aware then I think we, well, you know, we grieve our losses, we take it as the opportunity that it is to step out of this moment into a newly imagined world that is more equitable and is better for everybody.

André: Well, said. That's all I have. Thank you so much.

Alyssa: Goodness. All right. Well, thank you very much to the both of you, André for co hosting and a big thank you to Grace for joining us today and talking about all of the stuff that the Alliance is working on, the vision change initiative, and some of the advice that you've given us as well. It's been wonderful having you today and we've learned a lot so thank you.

André: Yeah, thank you.

Grace: Thank you.

And the Alliance is constantly updating our resources. So, feel free to check out their website for all kinds of articles. We're also really interested always, but particularly in this moment, of uplifting other [Internet Drop] to see what our museums are doing across the country as they all try To figure out how they exist in this new world.

Alyssa: If you'd like to check out more of the American Alliance of Museums and the Facing Change initiative, check out their website at www.aam-us.org

Thanks for listening to the Arts Management and Technology Lab podcast series. You can read more on the intersection between the arts and technology at www.amt-lab.org Or, you can listen to more interviews and discussions in our podcast series on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or Stitcher. Thank you for joining us.

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