In the latest installment of our Let’s Talk podcast series, AMT Lab contributors Ellena Sakai and Blake Aber are interviewed by host Maraika Lumholdt discuss their research into arts education and its transformative power, as well as the potentials for GIS to enhance connections with art in the museum space.

Trailer: Ellena Sakai: Statistics show that students have five times lower dropout rates. Students are twice as likely to graduate college or university. And I also found that students grade point averages or SATs scores are highly or higher than those without our educational tunings. And I found that really interesting with statistics. And from personal experience, I believe that I scored higher in my test results, because my comparatively high exposure to the arts.

Maraika Lumholdt : Welcome to another interview episode of checking the arts or podcast series on the arts management and technology laboratory at Carnegie Mellon University. My name is Marie Columbo, the host of tech in the arts. Today, I'm very excited to interview Ellena Sakai and Blake Aber about their research for AMT Lab on arts education and Geographic Information Systems for museums. Blake and Ellena, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

Maraika Lumholdt: Ellena, so you have been researching arts education? Do you think you could give a brief overview of the focus of your research? Yeah, of course.

Ellena Sakai: Um, so most of my research was based from my specific question, how does arts education opportunities impact students and their current and future careers? And to answer that question briefly, I found that students gained lifetime benefits from having that fundamental education in both public and private secondary schools. And there are statistics that can show that significance. In my preliminary research article, I lay out the arts core standards and processes, which are milestones built by the Americans for the Arts. And these are basically national core standards that exist in order for schools to aim for the highest level of arts education. However, there are some differences when it comes to looking at private and public schools within different regions around the US. I also touch on the importance of specifically the visual arts education aside from performing or the musical side, and how the visual arts can carry other distinct benefits and opportunities for students that are developing their skills on a more participatory and proactive level.

Maraika Lumholdt: I'd love to hear a little more about what inspired you to focus on this research, how have you benefited from arts education in your life?

Ellena Sakai: So for me, I've had an abundance of arts education experiences, and it has significantly helped me build my artistic literacy. To go off of that artistic literacy is basically cultivated by intuition, imagination, reasoning, and dexterity development. And to be specific, it has helped me express and find other unique forms of communication and engagement. And I feel like I've definitely benefited from this type of education, specifically the visual arts education, as it has been applicable to all other subjects like math, or science, I took them. And it has greatly motivated me to learn. And this method of learning has improved my cognitive and creative skills, also. To add a bit further to that statistics show that students have five times lower dropout rates, students are twice as likely to graduate college or university. And I also found that students, grade point averages or SAT scores are  higher than those without our education opportunities. And I found that really interesting, those statistics. And from personal experience, I believe that I scored higher in my test results, because my comparatively high exposure to the arts.

Maraika Lumholdt: That's amazing. I know, I feel so grateful for all the arts educational opportunities I've had throughout my life. So it's amazing to hear about how it's impacted others. And it sounds like there's so much data to backup their importance. So as a, as an outsider, I find art standards around the US pretty confusing. And it seems like there's a lot of different rules and changes that have happened just in my lifetime. So I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about how they work right now.

Ellena Sakai: Yeah. So during my research, I also ended up getting really confused with all these standards within the arts, especially because there's a Visual Performing, musical, etc. And I specifically took a look at the National Core standards around the US for specific public and private schools. But there were regional local standards that I could look at. And even some schools don't necessarily use those standards. They kind of adjusted on their own. But I think that these standards should definitely be narrowed down for a less so that so that it's less confusing for private and public education.

Maraika Lumholdt: Yeah, I imagine that administrators have a lot to think about as they're designing curriculums to be in line with all these different standards. So something that I feel like was one of the biggest benefits for me doing arts growing up was how it fosters a feeling of belonging. Is that something that you found in your research? In terms of how art impacts people's lives?

Ellena Sakai: Yeah, definitely. They're not only are there studies and statistics about academic improvement, there's definitely personal improvement that comes along with having arts education.

Maraika Lumholdt: So obviously arts education, very broad sounds like you've been able to delve into a variety of different research areas within that topic. I'd love to know what the next steps are for you. And where do you think you're headed from here with this research?

Ellena Sakai: So I am planning on talking, or I would like to talk to varying teachers around the US who deal with the differences in standards and maybe even teachers or professors who hotly come up with their own standards and see what their thoughts on it. Obviously, like, we think that it's pretty confusing. But I wonder if other teachers think that it's necessary and needed, and maybe it needs to be more developed? Maybe there needs to be more standards. Yep, I think that my next steps would be to kind of reach out to these teachers and get their insight developed my research.

Maraika Lumholdt: That sounds like a great place to go next. And I'm excited to hear more for everyone listening, you'll have a forthcoming article on Arts Management and Technology Laboratory's website, for your further research findings. So everyone stay tuned for that.

Ellena Sakai: Because I'm not a good test taker. So like, I think that without that education, I would be way in a worse spot than I am now. Wow, test scores.

Maraika Lumholdt: That is something that I'm sure interests a lot of people and seems like a really good data point to backup, the importance of arts education in our schools, How significant was the data that you're looking at when it showed impacts on test scores for students? Thank you so much, Elena, we'll be sure to stay tuned for any updated research on your end.

Maraika Lumholdt: And Blake, I'd love to hear about your research with geographic information systems for museums, specifically, could you give a brief overview of what you've been looking at?

Blake Aber: Yeah, um, when I first started thinking about Geographic Information Systems, or GIS, I was really interested in figuring out how this data way of showing or visualizing data could be used in a museum space. This technology has been around for a while. And it's kind of sporadically used around the arts, and specifically museums. And Jana Fredericks, who was a contributor for AMT Lab  actually did a lot of research on GIS and fundraising. But I was really interested in how that could be further used to actually get more people into museums. And then once people were in museums also breaking down other barriers, as opposed to like, understanding certain content, or just making people feel like they're actually welcomed in the space. Because I think a lot of the issues with a lot of museums in America is that it's almost like this temple on a hill, and it's very accessible. So I really just started looking at a lot of case studies to see what museums were doing now in the space. So basically, the Detroit Institute of Arts has been using GPS for quite some time to create a self guided tour that is also implemented augmented reality, so people can really see the art they're showing come to life and get a different perspective on it, which I found to be very interesting and helpful for learning.

Maraika Lumholdt: Yeah, that's really cool. I am definitely curious about the potential issues that GIS can be leveraged to solve. When do you think you notice that it could be a tool to improve accessibility?

Blake Aber: I interned at the Carnegie museums over this past summer, and I was tasked with doing a market research project to see what museums were actually implementing access programs, whether that was a reduced price of admission or an actual access membership, reduced cost of membership. And I looked around at different art museums, natural history museums, science centers, zoos, and I did find that a lot of museums were using access memberships based off of zip code. which was really interesting to me because you have to have some sort of data to pick which zip codes you're going to use for these access memberships. And so it kind of led me into wondering if these museums were using heat maps or a GIS system to get this data and to realize where their members were coming from, or where people weren't coming from, and then trying to create access programs based off of that. That data set.

Maraika Lumholdt: That's great, do you so it sounds like in terms of accessibility, welcoming, GIS can be leveraged a lot? Do you think that learning changes with GIS when it's implemented in exhibition design?

Blake Aber: I don't necessarily have any studies to back it up. But my assumption is that GIS can create more of a relationship between the museum and the people who are viewing the pieces in a museum, I talked with GIS expert, Chris Goranson, about his thoughts in GIS being used for museum work and he really emphasized the fact that GIS can be used to create these interactive designs for these exhibitions, which, to me means that the more interaction you have, the more people are going to take away from these, these exhibitions. And I think something interesting I found when I was looking at my research was that a lot of public art offices use jazz to create interactive, self guided tours. And I think when you give audience members more control over what they're seeing, it allows them to create their own journey. And in turn, it may allow them to take more back with them when they leave the space.

Maraika Lumholdt: Yeah, yeah, that definitely resonates with me, I don't have a visual arts background. So I have a great appreciation for it. But I find when I go to museums, and have that opportunity to discover on my own and create my own connections, a stronger connection with the art that I was just seeing. So it sounds like maybe that's something that you'd potentially research going forward. That's not you know, interesting. Alright, and then same question, anything since this initial podcast was recorded, that you want to speak on, in terms of like research findings, or?

Blake Aber: Yeah, I'd like to speak on the fact that like, even though GIS can be used as a tool for accessibility, in itself is not accessible in many cases, if you want to do higher level work. Okay.

Maraika Lumholdt: Yeah, that's great. So sounds like GIS is something that has a lot of potential to help in the museum field. I'm wondering if there are any limitations that you've discovered with it?

Blake Aber: Definitely, I think it's very obvious. And in my findings, I found quickly that GIS can be used to accomplish a lot of different things, especially depending on what software you're using. However, when I talked with Chris Goranson. And Kristen Curlin, what I really found quickly, was that museums, especially depending on their budget, may not have the knowledge and they may not have the money to be able to use GIS systems that can accomplish very high level projects. Specifically, ArcGIS is a great program and you can use it to create VR experiences. But it's incredibly expensive. And even with their nonprofit program they have it just might not be accessible for a smaller museum. There are several GIS software on the market that are free or very low cost. Specifically for nonprofits who have Google through their nonprofit status. They can use Google Maps and play around with GIS capabilities if they want to kind of start exploring that space. But in terms of using it in a more high level, way, cost and education is what's going to make influential implementation of GIS and museums slow.

Maraika Lumholdt: Interesting, so a tool to help improve accessibility but the tool itself not necessary. are the most accessible right now?

Blake Aber: Exactly.

Maraika Lumholdt: Yeah, I think we see with so many new technologies in the arts field that sometimes over time they can become more accessible. We'll see if that's the case, GIS, but an interesting future, for sure until to consider. I'd love to hear about what your next steps are with this research. Is there anything you're diving deeper into going forward?

Blake Aber: Yeah, I really dive deeper into the specific just software that's on the market and what museums could practically take away from where research is the cost, the application applications that the software can have, for museums that have wanted to trial GIS, but maybe have been kind of lost in the sea of multiple GIS softwares that exist?

Maraika Lumholdt: Well, we will stay tuned for that research. And again, for anyone listening to read more about both Ellena and Blake's research, you can visit amtlab.org. So two very interesting topics in two very different parts of the arts world. I'm wondering if through your research, you found any overlapping areas between these topics?

Ellena Sakai: Well, I did see an overlap and the inherent benefits were when people interact with art. And I find it really interesting that these benefits are hard to gain without proper access. We're just talking about to these opportunities. Do you see any other connections?

Blake Aber: Yeah, I think something we both talked about at length was, art does create a sense of belonging for communities. There was a study done by the Knight Foundation in 2020 that proved that people tend to stay in places because of certain offerings that their community has, and cultural spaces. Access to art was one of those. And I think that there's no argument that art is beneficial to people. But if you don't have access, in art, through education, or just through your social, personal life, if you can't go to a museum and get benefit out of that, then it's really not doing anything for you.

Maraika Lumholdt: Thank you. I think that's a great point to leave our listeners to ponder. Thank you both, again, so much for sharing your research. And again, for everyone listening, please visit amtlab.org To read more about like Italy this week. Thank you for listening to tech in the arts. Be on the lookout for new episodes coming to you soon. If you found this episode, informative, educational or inspirational. Be sure to send this to another article see natto in your life. You can let us know what you thought that is your website amp lab.org That's AMT-lab.org. Or you can email us at amtlabcmu@gmail.com. You can follow us on Instagram at Tech and Arts or on Facebook and LinkedIn at Arts Management and Technology Lab. We'll see you for the next episode.