In this episode, Alyssa phones in with Yuri Suzuki, a sound artist, designer, and electronic musician. Together, they discuss the concepts of Yuri’s interactive pieces, how audiences react to them, and how museum and exhibition spaces can host interactive artworks.

Special thanks goes to the Dallas Museum of Art and Pentagram for allowing AMT-Lab to host Yuri Suzuki.

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Alyssa: Hello, AMT-Lab listeners, and welcome to an interview episode brought to you by the Arts Management and Technology Lab. My name is Alyssa and I am the Podcast Producer.

In this episode, we sit down with Yuri Suzuki, an international experience and sound designer at Pentagram. One of his latest works include “The Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2,” featured in the exhibition titled speechless: different by design. The themes of these works intersect between the arts and technology, but they also intersect between sound and people, and they introduce a new method in the way that audiences interact with art.

We hope you enjoy this episode brought to you by AMT-Lab.

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Alyssa: Alrighty, so I'm here today with Yuri Suzuki, where we are video conferencing in all the way from London. Thank you very much for joining us today.

Yuri: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Alyssa: Alrighty, so as I mentioned before in the introduction, a significant portion of your work intersects between the arts and technology with a focus on the relationships between sound and people. So I'm curious: what made you decide to design your work around technology?

Yuri: Yeah, I think…in the beginning, I have my background as kind of a study difficulty in the beginning. So I'm a dyslexic myself and I have difficulty for reading and writing. And I have huge passion for art and art and design as well. But like always, like, a dyslexic matter is a problem for me to record into reading, sort of kept reading to help correct description of the artwork, and sometimes, reading music score or something, which is my biggest difficulty. And at the time and mind to the interactive and experiential based artwork, because that actually doesn't need any word. And it's just, if you intend to interact with work, I can know like what artists think about and what the work tried to poke into us. So that's why I'm more into interactive-based project. And the actual technology itself is coming later because I feel like sometimes it becomes highly useful material to the writing idea.

Alyssa: Okay, excellent. I actually understand that on a personal level, along with an artistic level. I myself did not say my very first words until I was four years old. So to hear you say that as well is actually like, personally very meaningful to me.

Yuri: Mm-hmm.

Alyssa: What made you decide to focus your work on well on how people's brains interact with sound?

Yuri: Yeah, I think personally, I have a passion to be a musician in the beginning. I have a huge music love in a way and my dad has a huge record collection. So I was growing up with music quite a lot. And then… I have a passion to be a musician but I have to give up because of many reasons, like personally…dyslexic matter, can’t read any musical score…and also, you know, timing and also kind of in the way to live in that [inaudible] is quite difficult. And then I kind of switched into the passion the way. So, but still-- and I moved to like England in 2002 or 3 and study at art college. And basically, that moment, it's kind of a special moment because I can combine sort of my knowledge of concept into the, as a form of kind of work. Using a knowledge as music knowledge at the sound and origin to sort of physical format, work interactive with artwork, was quite a good change during a study time in England.

Alyssa: All right, cool. So one of the most recent examples that we've seen of your work took place at the Dallas Museum of Art. And this is where an audience could view and interact with your piece titled “The Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2.”

Yuri: Yeah.

Alyssa: For our listeners who can't see the piece right now: the artwork is a giant black globe with different sound clips embedded into the globe, and each part of the globe—

Yuri: Exactly.

Alyssa: Oh, sorry?

Yuri: Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Alyssa: Okay. So each part of the globe it is unique because each part has a different sound clip that represents a geographic location on the world. And in this way, audiences interact with a piece by simply placing an ear next to the globe and hearing one of the sound clips. Could you tell us about your process on collecting your clips and building them into the globe?

Yuri: Yeah. So basically, this piece is [inaudible] to piece anyway, something I can deduce like,  my public art project and inspirations mobile software bonding, or I can engage in community to the sound experience. That's something I want to try to do over time. And then this “Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2” is basically kind of co-creative piece, collaborative piece in a way.

So we put in a website, and we actually kind of people casting submissions sound which kind of specific like part of the world, such as North America or Europe and so on, and we can actually, people actually make—any people can submit any short bit of sound, and you can attach into that kind of two meter, [inaudible] square meter globe in a way. You can actually hear the sounds to the vibrations inside of the group and you can feel like, you know, treetops and the kinda sunny roadmap in a way, that's kind of idea. So in the process, I highly rely on submission from public’s website, and their own sound is actually exhibiting in the way [inaudible] globe. That's a process for creating that piece.

Alyssa: Okay, cool. And did you run into any common issues when you were using or building a piece or some of the sound clips?

Yuri: You mean like difficulty for collecting sound? Or…

Alyssa: Umm…

Yuri: I'm sorry, I didn't get it.

Alyssa: Oh, no, no, it's okay. Um, my question is mainly for those who are interested in working with the technology. Like, if there's like, common issues that may run into such as, for example, any copyright that might come with using some of the sound clips?

Yuri: Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the way, I think we asked kind of people to submit things, kind of… It's actually, kind of in exhibiting, they have to agree, actually exhibiting in the public museum. That never, like, we actually have people to ask to agree with that in the beginning. But at same time, we don't take ownership of the sound at all. Because this occasion, we are a touring show anyways, the next destination the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, we provide a kind of keepback or kind of playback of sound maybe, but unless people update new sound, so… But I'm not like taking ownership of the sound itself. I have platform ownership as artwork, but sometimes submissions actually depend on the area and that depends on the location, I'm going to be changing it.

Alyssa: Okay, cool.

Yuri: So we are not really forcing people to waive, like, any rights or anything, we still have about kind of right to that ownership of sound recording. But in the beginning, they have to agree for the exhibiting space. That's kind of basic understanding to people to submit sound, I think.

Alyssa: Oh, yeah, yeah, it's all part of the agreement. It's all part of communication. Okay.

Yuri: We try to be quite in a soft way with the agreement. Yeah.

Alyssa: Perfect. So “The Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2” is part of the speechless: different by design exhibition in Dallas, Texas. And I actually had a chance to visit and interact with your piece back in November 2019. One part of this exhibit is to encourage interaction and communication without speech and words. And my personal opinion upon viewing “The Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2” is that it definitely accomplishes this goal, and it also breaks down some boundaries between different cultures and communities.

Yuri: I think in a way, yeah. I think either way, like, this is more of a very quiet piece anyway, but same time, it's quiet directly you can hear in the kind of culture difference. And it don't have to appeal so much strong way with the impact, I think so kind of slowly. If people understand that, then they’re gonna be really happy with the piece.

Alyssa: Oh, yeah, I feel like even though it does make a small impact, it is an impact nonetheless.

Yuri: Yeah.

Alyssa: So in addition, something that I noticed about many of your artworks is that it does have an interactive component to it, whether it involves listening in closely or transforming simple objects into musical instruments. And the one example that I found was your gallery called Furniture Music, which is comprised of different artworks such as the “Acoustic Table”. And for audiences again, this is a piece where audiences can sit for a cup of tea or a snack and have a conversation. But the table is a chamber— well, an acoustic chamber where their voices echo and they can hear their voices a lot more clearly.

Yuri: Hmm.

Alyssa: So what do you feel are some of the benefits to having your audiences engaged with your work?

Yuri: Well, I think, again, like, I want to really tell my statement as the best way to understanding opinion from artists or aka specific artwork, or I think in terms of format to the public, interactive work is the best way to I can communicate with people coming into the gallery, I think. And I think through the experience getting more stronger impression and understanding the work, I think… That's why for me is kind of higher, important things, actually, instead of just passive way. People actively engage in specific activities, but important.

Alyssa: Okay, and this sounds like it was in a personal gallery space. But my next question: what is something that museums and museum managers should know if they are interested in having interactive pieces in their space?

Yuri: Yeah, I think the single most important…like, liability? [light laughter] It does get down to [inaudible] quite horrible as an interactive work. But at same time, we’re highly caring over the most safety in the work because of touching or it could be in danger, injury or something. So we have to pre-prepare them as much as possible, less, like you know, injure and make as safe as possible, and the system has to be safe as possible too. And also, in terms of interactive work, there's so much difficulty for the maintenance as well, because people are sometimes quite aggressive with touching and the kind of banging it, and people break it sometimes. So we should be prepared for what kind of scenario gonna be there.

So I can really tell like museum and also curator or museum manager have to be aware interactive project if required to have unblocked location of the [inaudible], we have to make sure in the beginning. But in a way, that in career, I'm almost planning my own practice for more than 10 years. We've learned quite a lot. We have insurance and safety nets, we have a science and structure engineer. So we have both kind of, you know, most comfortable for… actually I could, you know, create on the museum money, actually, because we prepare everything for them. But that's actually a feeling that kind of artist probably have to take over that kind of responsibility as well, because that's why it's quite difficult to keep going on an interactive or a kinetic kind of project.

Alyssa: Okay, so I have an interesting question, then. Do you predict that there's going to be a revolution in the way that audiences interact or view art? Or maybe do you predict that more of these interactive pieces will be featured in galleries or museums?

Yuri: Well, I think I definitely can feel engagement with the people in the museum, and the art context is quite important as well. So, but it's not only happening now it is has been pointed out for a long, long time anyway. And that's why workshops based on the performance became quite popular, and engagement to the people as well. In terms of the, you know, interactivity of the work on this, that also, while the choice from the artist take over… but I can see a different trend. There's so many people taking that kind of passage as well.

Alyssa: Absolutely. Okay, so my next couple of questions have to do with collaboration. So there is another piece that I found in my research that you did called AR Music kit. This is a particular piece between you and Google's Android, and according to Jamie Green of It's Nice That, the idea came from “a childhood nostalgia of playing with household objects, such as taking a tennis racket and pretending that it's a guitar.” So I'm curious: what was it like to collaborate with Google for the project?

Yuri: Well, I think…I was quite lucky position in the way because, I'm quite strange position to be honest. Like, I'm artist, basically at same time on position as a designer and the partner at Pentagram Design. Pentagram’s one of the largest design concept as a company as well. So like, people sometimes treat me as more like artist anyway, in terms of the great collaborator at Google.

So Google basically came to me with this with my work and they feeling like I'm using a lot of credit for experiments through the sound, and also that with some interactivity and that could be really good for the Android experiment project. So basically, that was with a division code data team from Google who came to me to collaborate together for some project. So I think, process was kind of highly collaborative because we sit down together and talking about a lot of idea and we start prototyping it. And once prototype is finished that they like it and just start, like making it and finishing [inaudible]. So it was, like, extra lucky position for me, like, this project is really fit to me like rather than like doing an ability, what I can do. So the process is highly collaborative, same time, like it seems like almost same as what usually creating my own art project, I think.

Alyssa: Okay, cool. All right. And some of the components or highlights I saw of the AR Music Kit is that there's accessibility for gaining access to the app or perhaps the design was the most important so that it was easy to use and learn. But tell me, what do you feel was the most critical on the design of this project?

Yuri: Well, you just have to make simple as possible because this kind of technical capability could be more sophisticated, more complicated things. But I would follow as simple as possible because I want to be, sort of like a software or technology work, especially designing for work upon children that we have in making it. I want to use children as sort of, like, Lego in the way that they can discover by themself, or they can actually handle. Because this is not only a software, it's coming with kind of paper, piece of paper and a copy [inaudible] that they can actually kind of, you know, craft in a way to like stick on the wall and so on and expanding as much as they want. That's something I wanted to try to do. So, principle is quite simple, but you can expand yourself, like Lego, something that will be tried from this project.

Alyssa: Okay, awesomeness. Okay. And our final question for today: can you tell us about your favorite piece of technology?

Yuri: Well, it's hard to tell because, again, I feel like it knows it's just messing with theorizing your idea. But as I like doing a lot of music project, my perspective these days…we using quite a lot of record, artificial intelligence or machine learning based project, because we feel highly useful to creating music or creating a collaborative platform. So which is actually excite me quite a lot these days. But I've not really tended to stick on technology itself. That's just using-method.

Alyssa: I like that, alright. Well, hey, thank you so much again. It was great to chat with you today.

Yuri: Yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, I actually, I was in Carnegie Mellon University short time, so…

Alyssa: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's a, it's a big campus for sure.

Yuri: Yeah.

Alyssa: And, definitely, there's a big music scene going on here too. So…

Yuri: Yeah, I was in there for 2012? 2011? And I used to be doing research, so I was in the Carnegie Mellon University for one year, so that's quite funny. It’s a really nice city, Pittsburgh, yeah.

Alyssa: Yeah, it seems like there's a bunch of revolution that always takes place like around Pittsburgh, but otherwise, like, in its essence, like it's still like Pittsburgh to its core in that, and that like really has not changed, or at least from my perspective. I've only been here for two years, so…

Yuri: All right, okay. Yeah, I love it, actually. I live in there for one year, I think? Yeah.

Alyssa: Yes, it's it's a wonderful city. It's been my favorite place to live so far.

Yuri: Yeah, thank you.

Alyssa: Not a problem.

So for those who are interested in checking out “The Sound of the Earth, Chapter 2” in speechless: different by design, The High Museum of Art in Atlanta, Georgia, will have it on view until September 6, 2020***. Anyone who wants to view Yuri’s work online can visit yurisuzuki.com. That’s Y U R I S U Z U K I .com. Additionally, Yuri’s work and 24 additional collaborative artists’ works can also be found on at Pentagram’s website at pentagram.com. That’s P E N T A G R A M .com.

We would like to give a special thanks to the Dallas Museum of Art for allowing us to view the speechless: different by design exhibit and for connecting AMT-Lab with Pentagram and artist Yuri Suzuki. To learn more information about the Dallas Museum of Art and some of their special exhibitions such as speechless, you may visit their website at dma.org.

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Thanks for listening to the Arts Management and Technology Lab podcast series. You can read more on the intersection between the Arts and Technology at www.amt-lab.org, or you can listen to more interviews and discussions in our podcast series on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or Stitcher. Thank you for joining us.

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Audio transcription for AMT-Lab’s Podcast Series is supported by Otter.AI.

***This event is likely canceled/postponed due to the coronavirus pandemic.