In this month’s episode of Let’s Talk series, Alyssa and Grace discuss facial recognition technology, concerns in data privacy with the Clearview AI app, and general technology policy. Learn how these trending topics can impact arts management.

Alyssa: Hello, AMT-Lab listeners, and welcome to our fifth episode of the Let's Talk series, brought to you by the Arts Management and Technology Lab. My name is Alyssa, and I am the Podcast Producer.

Grace: And I'm Grace, the Technology and Innovative Content Manager.

Alyssa: Each month, we bring you trending stories and discussions with topics such as CRM, artificial intelligence, marketing, social media, inclusion, fundraising, and much more. Our goal is to exchange ideas, bring awareness, and stay on top of the trends. In this month's episode, we will discuss recent strides towards accessibility with technology, facial recognition, concerns in data privacy with the Clearview AI app, and technology policy.

Alyssa: So when I was researching articles these past couple of months, I found a lot of articles that were stating predictions for 2020 and the new decade. And, you know, like within this episode, we're going to mention a couple of these articles, but I'm actually curious, Grace: do you have any predictions yourself for 2020 and for the new decade in terms of arts and tech?

Grace: Oh, um, you know, I think…I think with what we've talked about over the past couple months, we've really started to see trends in desire for policy, about privacy, and, you know, user protection, that sort of thing. I think there's also been a trend of trying to see how can technology be implemented for user experience? I think we're going to start seeing a lot of that coming up. I mean, I don't know if that's a prediction necessarily, but I think that people are starting to try and figure out, you know, how can we reengage people who have been patrons or guest of ours for several years, but maybe, you know, we want to try and get something fresh, because we've, we've seen some of that, I think, where people are really, you know, this great and all, but it's data shows that sometimes audiences get bored. When audiences get bored, they tend not to come back as often. So I think we're going to start to see a shift into that.

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. Um, in terms of future episodes within the AMT-Lab podcast, today we're actually going to be talking a little bit about some of those policies that might come up like within the next couple of months or within the next couple years or so. You know, my prediction actually is that we're going to keep growing at the same pace we're growing up with technology right now, because we've dramatically advanced in technology from the early Millennium to 2010. And then from 2010 to 2020, like we certainly expanded quite a bit again. So I'm predicting that if we're going to stay at the same pace like, or maybe we might slow down a little bit. But regardless of either or, like, we're probably going to see a variety of new trends and topics, especially within the arts and arts management.

Grace: I think it's going to be crucial that arts organizations of any kind, really try and stay aware of what's going on and what's popping up. The arts have historically been behind a little bit when it comes to implementing new technologies. Not always, but for the most part. So I think that's going to be something that arts managers and organizations for the next, you know, however many years need, that's going to need to be a focus, I think.

Alyssa: Yeah, especially since the arts usually have a trend of being ahead, like in terms of political topics, for example, or other sorts of trends.

Well, of course, whatever sorts of topics will trend this year and within the next decade, we're always curious to hear from you if there's a trend that you'd like for us to talk about on the podcast. So please leave us a comment on www.amt-lab.org on our podcast page, or drop us a note on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram, and let us know what you want to hear next.

Alright, let's get AMTed with AMT-Lab!

So in our last Let's Talk episode in January, we spoke about the GDPR, or the EU’s General Data Protection Regulation, and the new CCPA, or the California Consumer Privacy Act. For those who aren't very familiar with either of these regulations; well of course, there's our last Let's Talk episode where we do discuss these in very great detail and we do answer a couple of questions--

Grace: Thank you to Larry Silverman for joining us.

Alyssa: Oh my goodness, yes, he was such a big help. Ah, it was so wonderful. But for those of you who just want a quick rundown, these regulations exists because we are starting to ask questions about our rights to our personal information online. Now, the regulations are the front runner in data privacy policies that states are creating. And of course, when we did have the wonderful Larry Silverman over, he did mention that California now has their own regulation with the CCPA. But he also mentioned that states such as New York, Delaware, and Nevada had their own laws too, and other states are getting ready to join them in 2020.

So, with this in mind, the first article that we'd like to talk about today comes from Kim Hart and Margaret Harding McGill from Axios called “States will be the battlegrounds for 2020 tech policy fights.” Along with data and consumer privacy being one of the hot topics for the year, the article mentions that we should also see news again for net neutrality, believe it or not, plus gig-economy labor, facial recognition, home-sharing and antitrust laws. According to the article, we should expect a lot more of this action to come from states this year than from DC. And the writers do specifically state that this is possible due to the action on the recent presidential impeachment, plus election campaigns, although it should be noted that states are going to be busy with election campaigns as well.

Grace: So the question is, I think, you know, how do these kinds of things affect arts and the arts managers and, you know, looking specifically at consumer privacy, obviously, we've mentioned the GDPR and CCPA. And the article that you mentioned, Alyssa, refers specifically to new state regulations coming up this year in New York, Washington State and Illinois.

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. And the funny thing about Illinois is that they have a type of regulation that I'm actually going to bring up later on when we mention the Clearview AI app. They have their own regulation that is called the Illinois Biometric Information Privacy law. And when we talk a little bit more about this facial recognition app, then we can go more into details regarding that.

Grace: Well, I look forward to when we get to that part of the conversation. Jumping off of that, arts managers: there is a bipartisan national law that we should all be paying attention to, if you don't know about it, already, introduced by the House Energy and Commerce Committee staff currently in the works. This regulation, if passed, would put more of the burden of consumer privacy protection on companies and regulators rather than the consumers themselves. Despite the fact that most of us are nonprofit organizations, we do work quite often with consumers. And as such, we should be mindful of what we do with our consumers data.

With this, we also need to pay attention in case we have to change our own organization's privacy policies to become compliant to new laws, both state and federal. So if you haven't heard of this new bipartisan law, I would recommend just maybe doing a little bit of a Google search and seeing if it could potentially have any implications for your organization. And who knows, if it gets past it could maybe start a wave of new policies that are kind of waiting in the dark right now.

Alyssa: Yeah, and Senator Ron Wyden has also introduced a very similar bill as well. It's called the Mind Your Own Business act, and this is an act with the strongest protections for Americans’ data privacy. Right now, it's currently being reviewed by the Committee of Finance.

So these are both regulations that may be passed, may be adjusted, it might actually be a little while before it comes out. But you know, like, these are kind of like the front runners in policies that are really like taking effect like, especially after the GDPR and the CCPA. And, you know, around the globe, like there are a couple of other privacy questions being asked in privacy laws being created. For example, in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada is looking at changes for their current privacy laws. India is looking to read to legislate a personal data protection bill. And even in Brazil, they have a general data protection law that's supposed to come into effect this month, February 2020.

Grace: Oh, that's exciting.

Alyssa: Alright. So these are all things that you know, like, it's what will be on the lookout for that, for sure, but it might still be a little bit of time before we actually like start to see a little bit more other than what we're currently seeing in the States right now.

Alright, so another topic that we're looking at is net neutrality. This is going to be making the rounds again as states take on proposing regulations that encourage a free and open Internet. For example, The New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced his seventh proposal on a legislation that will, and this is me quoting directly from the Gov.NY website: “this legislation will prevent the blocking, throttling and paid prioritization of online content.” And this legislation would be the strongest out of the other state attempts to address net neutrality.

Grace: So why, just out of curiosity, what is that going to affect, you know, management with advertising for arts organizations?

Alyssa: Um, I would say that arts managers should pay attention to this because whatever may happen with net neutrality is going to affect how we reach out to internet users and just exactly how well we can market to them.

Grace: It's a good thing to know, because I know we talked several months ago about the crackdown on YouTube for the COPPA laws. So I'm wondering if maybe this is some sort of ripple effect, potentially.

Alyssa: Hmm. You know, based on my research, I did see COPPA appear a couple of times, but that was actually more for data privacy, especially when it comes to protecting your kids’ privacy online. But I would not be surprised if this is also an effect of that. I know that net neutrality was particularly popular a couple years ago. And you know, like now that we're getting upon--

Grace: The explosion of when that vote came down…

Alyssa: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, like now that we may potentially be seeing a switch in candidates and candidates’ views, whatever will come with this next election... It’s possibly going to be discussed again, there's possibly going to be a major push for this. So it's something else to keep an eye out for, alright.

Grace: Another mini topic that we're looking at as well for arts managers to stay aware of is gig-economy labor. When we mentioned gig-economy labor and reference to today's news, we are specifically turning to examples such as Uber and Instacart. An article from the New Republic titled “The Silicon Valley Economy is Here. It's a Nightmare” by Lia Russell addresses the important with the current gig-economy regulations. This article takes on the quite an urgent tone but gives excellent examples on what changes companies like Uber and Instacart have made and just how much it has made a negative impact to its workers.

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. There's been quite a few articles that are trending I do have this urgent tone because there's a lot of push for rights within the gig economy labor and those that are independent contractors or even self-employed workers and how like they could potentially be misclassified.

Grace: Absolutely, yeah.

Alyssa: And you know, like as of January 20, in the year 2020, Phil Murphy of New Jersey had signed a package of bills into laws that will protect the rights of self-employed workers within the state. And that's particularly on that misclassification on workers.

Grace: When that area doesn't surprise me either. Because with thinking specifically within the dance industry, I know this is also within potentially other industries, but I have more background knowledge of this. New York and San Francisco, LA, these are places where gig life you know, if you're a freelancer, having those regulations in place could potentially be very helpful, but it could also be potentially harmful. So it should be interesting to see how that maybe starts to flow over from, you know, Uber, Instacart…delving into, you know, the issues with that, and the reactions to that and the regulations that come as a result, and how that flows into the arts industry.

So, arts managers, if you work with freelancers and gig workers quite a bit, this is something that could potentially affect how you deal with them on a day-to-day basis. So keep it right.

Alyssa: Absolutely. Yeah, coming from the musical worlds, like I used to work with a small orchestra where the majority of our musicians would actually be freelancers. They either had other part-time or full-time jobs on the side, and we're just playing like, for the fun of it kind of, sort of, or they were legitimate, like, gig folks. Like they were freelancers, they were trying to get as many gigs as they possibly could. And therefore, when it came to tax time, like that really ended up like being a nightmare for them because there would be so many forms and so many worries that you would have to come with taxes… And, you know, like for independent contractors, I don't know if there's going to be too much of a change in terms of how we define an independent contractor. But to see a lot of clarification, like especially for misclassification…for me, like, that's good news. And, you know, like, we'll have to keep an eye on this and see exactly where it goes. Alright.

Grace: Now moving to home-sharing.

Alyssa: Yes. So this is this is one of those mini topics where I was like, “Well, wait a minute, do arts managers really have to worry about home-sharing?” Now of course, this refers to the restrictions that are being made for companies like Airbnb, Homeaway, Vrbo… And, you know, once again, like to answer this question, like if arts managers need to pay attention to this, like I'm going to share, like my personal experiences within orchestra administration, particularly the festival worlds, but, you know, like, yes, home-sharing companies and these regulations can be a topic that arts managers should concern themselves with like, particularly like, if you're worrying about independent contractors that use home sharing for weekend gigs, or if you have donors that donate their home share condos or basements or apartments, whichever it is like to use, like, within Music Festival organizations as they attempt to house like guest artists and guest musicians.

Grace: Yeah, I mean, speaking from personal experience within the dance world, there's somewhat of a similarity to that. Small touring companies can sometimes use these home-shares. It depends on you know, occasionally the contacts that you have within whatever city you're in. But if you are thinking about using these home-shares, or are currently using these home shares as a traveling company or a freelancer, these restrictions could potentially, you know, make it either really difficult or you just have to jump through some hoops that add to the stress of tour life.

Alyssa: Oh my goodness, that is 100% correct, it is. The more stress that we can, in my opinion, like the more stress that we can take off of our guests like the better. But, you know, like this is a matter of like, pay attention to this too.

In terms of antitrust, currently, and this is going to pop up again and be really big like once they figure out the details of these investigations. So currently, there are investigations into Google from 50 states and territories, we have currently 40 states investigating Facebook, and right now there's a multi effort between the states of New York and California to block the T Mobile sprint merger. And that's because like such a merge would create antitrust issues and potentially  much higher prices for sale service.

Grace: Yeah, but this is this is something that the United States has grappled with for many, many years now. And I'm sure will for many years to come, just with the way that our economy currently operates. So we'll see where that goes and how that may potentially affect arts monitors.

Alyssa: Oh, yeah. And totally, like totally. And because this is probably around a similar realm to net neutrality In which case, like, whatever will happen with these investigations may affect how we use the Internet and it may affect how we use privacy. It really all depends. But this is another thing to pay attention to, and something that will certainly pop up in the news again.

Alright. And finally, we're going to mention our very last mini topic, which will transition into our next big article that we like to discuss, and that's facial recognition. There is a lot currently on this topic, and there are some people that are taking sides on this topic as well. Basically, the one big example is the Clearview AI app, which a big story from the New York Times has come out with this and there's been quite a few reactions based off of this.

So here's the deal. It is now the year 2020. We've gone through one month, and we've already had quite a few trending stories in the news. And among tech news in particular was one troubling topic within facial recognition technology. That is the app called Clearview AI. In this New York Times article by Kashmir Hill, Clearview was described as an app with a database of 3 billion photos.

Grace: That's a lot of photos.

Alyssa: Yes, and these were scraped from social media sites such as Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Venmo, many other websites. The app has been used by law enforcement to solve numerous cases. The police would simply need to use a picture or video footage that they would gather from these specific crimes and then the suspect would be instantly matched to any photos from the app’s lengthy database. Some of these cases were solved in as little as 20 minutes, and there were other dead-end cases that were solved as well, thanks to the clear view AI app.

However, since the New York Times article on Clearview was released, many have read it and have begun to react against the app. Twitter in particular has sent an official cease and desist letter to Clearview, stating that scraping photos from Twitter accounts is strictly against Twitter's Terms of Service. Gurbir S. Grewal, New Jersey's Attorney General, had ordered New Jersey police to stop using the Clearview App after reading about it on the New York Times and having his own image appear in a Clearview promotional video. And an Illinois resident is currently suing Clearview on the basis that it's photo scraping without permission violates the Illinois Biometric Information Privacy Law.

So currently, there are a couple of states that have certain bands in place for facial recognition technology. For example, Oregon, New Hampshire and California have regulations in place, say for the placement of police body cameras, and Massachusetts is also introducing a bill that would halt facial recognition tech use by government agencies.

Grace: I want to step in here real quick and just comment on the scraping techniques and just the issues with that. Scraping from the web…I'm not surprised that there are cease and desist orders and that there's an Illinois individual suing Clearview. This has actually been an up and coming topic regarding scraping information from electronic sources or from the digital realm. Part of this deals with the privacy issues. A lot of websites now actually have a sort of filter that prevents this sort of scraping…not all, some do. Some of its included in your privacy law, like you mentioned, or privacy policy like Twitter has mentioned with their Clearview cease and desist. But this is something that anyone who is considering doing data scraping of any kind, you need to be aware of the policies of the pages you are approaching. And we actually here on AMT-Lab will be discussing that in further depth in the coming week. So stay tuned, if you want to know more about how to do that, why you should pay attention to this, and what the differences are in various methods.

But in terms of that, yet, I'm not surprised that there has been a huge reaction to this Clearview scraping all of these photos.

Alyssa: Yeah. And you know, that's interesting, because I actually didn't know about the web filter that is currently in place like to prevent this scraping.

Grace: A lot of it, it’s…I'm not exactly sure how it works. There is, it's either within the coding somehow, but what it does is it essentially prevents the automated web crawlers that go through and pull this information from pulling this information off of their website. It's kind of like a fancy firewall, although I know it's not a firewall completely. But that's what I think of it as. It's basically just a way to kind of have, you know, you can see this information but you can't take it from my website. You don't have permission to do that.

Alyssa: Yes, and there's probably without a doubt, quite a few people that listen to or read this particular article and, you know, like they get very concerned that their face, like, might be scanned or their information is being pulled from different websites. For sure, there are a lot of people that currently do not support facial recognition technology because of this. But there are those that do support it as well. Law enforcement, for instance, like they have this benefit to it. There's a quote as well from Jonathan Turley, the Constitutional Law Expert at George Washington University. This is from another New York Times article by Kate Conger, Richard Fausset, and Serge F. Kovaleski. And this quote, “it is ridiculous to deny the value of this technology in securing airports and border installations. It is hard to deny that there is a public safety value to this technology.”

But, you know, reading that, and thinking about like these examples…I think, and this is my opinion, this is my opinion alone. But I think that if we're going to enforce this, then there needs to be talk as well on how this technology can and should be regulated.

Grace: Absolutely. I think that's it's stemming from some of the conversations about things like the GDPR, the CCPA, and, you know, the whole idea of the right to be forgotten, that sort of thing. You know, how much…specifically with arts managers as we work to try and incorporate technology into our, you know, curating techniques or, you know, tracking our patrons and trying to understand who we actually serve. You know, there is some of that, but I do, I can see the hesitation, and me personally, I don't know how I would feel about knowing the fact that my face is just suddenly been pulled into this database without me knowing. But I think that comes with the, you know, for a long time, technological space, the digital realm has specifically the web. And, you know, it's been kind of loosey goosey in terms of how things are regulated. And I think as things become more and more, you know, technology based and communication increases through technology…I think this is we're starting to see the building blocks of what the future of the web is going to be. I don't know where this is going to go. But it should be interesting to see what happens.

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. Currently, there are museums that are currently featuring exhibits on data privacy. I believe The Shed in New York City has an example where visitors give just an email address and they have a lot of information that's pulled up on that person’s lows such as where they've last been and this is, this is from the visitor’s like permission like in order to show information like this…

Grace: You have to opt in.

Alyssa: Basically, yes. But in terms of facial recognition, and its place within the arts, there's actually a report that Taylor Swift had used very similar facial recognition technology.

Grace: I did hear about this.

Alyssa: Yeah, it was at one of her concerts and it was at the gates of that way, like it would identify any stalkers that might potentially go into one of her concerts.

Grace: I mean, speaking of, you know, concerts and talking about public safety, that could potentially be an option. Now, whether or not that encroaches on the privacy rights of the so-called stalker, and I don't know where you would regulate that. But in terms of safety, I can see, you know, what the potential positives could be. But then the question is, is there a way for people to opt-in or opt-out? We've talked a lot about that with some of the past privacy laws. So I'd be interested to see if maybe our listeners have some opinions on how these kinds of technologies might affect your institution, your art form, and whether or not if you're currently using something like this, how visitors or guests can either opt-in or opt-out and how you make them aware that that's an option.

Alyssa: Yeah, absolutely. There are some airports that are utilizing facial recognition. I know that this is an option that you can sometimes opt into where if you want to quickly go through security, and this is, from what I understand, like particularly useful if you're traveling internationally, then you simply like need to scan your face and your face is your passport itself. But there are a couple of articles that are trending right now that discuss some of the concerns with that as well. For a concert, I don't know if there's any particular way where you can opt-in or you can warn visitors, “hey, listen, we're using facial recognition technology, please prepare for your face to get scanned.” And then you're only the only opt-out is if you just don't go to the concert at all.

Grace: Yeah, so my question to you: is that part it like is opting in part of buying a ticket? Is that something that you make clear, you know, from your purchasing page? Yeah, I don't know how you how you'd make it so that they could either opt-in or opt-out depending on which method you're using.

Alyssa: That is absolutely a tough call.

So, moving on a little bit, and we will talk about facial recognition technology once again as we go further into this article. But for now we'd like to introduce our final article. Grace, would you like to tell us about it?

Grace: Sure. So our final article today is from the Sydney Morning Herald from journalist Alice Clarke. This article was released on January 2nd with the headline “Accessibility will define technology in the 2020s.” The article gives a few examples of accessible technologies such as adaptive video game controllers, or Apple's new OS systems implementing fall detection, speech-to-text and text-to-speech capabilities in their products. However, we're currently seeing a couple of new articles pop up on the subject to actually start making this prediction come true.

So in an additional article, by the KMOV staff of St. Louis, Missouri, the local Omnimax theater added in what's called a looping system to help moviegoers with cochlear implants hear the movie better. The technology works by transferring a signal from a TV or microphone directly into a cochlear implant with what's known as a telecoil receiver. If someone is using just a cochlear implant, you can certainly pick up the sound from a movie, but every noise around them is also magnified, such as candy bar wrappers, shuffling feet, the door slamming, just to name a few examples. But with the telecoil, if a piece of technology has this looping system or a looping system in general, then cochlear implant users can simply flip a T-switch and hear the audio from that technology directly.

The ADA state laws have regulations in place where looping systems must be installed. For example, according to a s h a.org, or ASHA.org. The FCC has minimum requirements for cell phone makers to make a number of HAC devices, or hearing aid compatible devices. However, there is still some advocacy taking place to have looping systems placed in public areas such as movie theaters.

Alyssa: Yeah, and we should start to see a little bit more of this advocacy taking place. It's been happening for a while, but you know, I think there's going to be…if I can throw in a prediction, I think there's going to be even more of a push for this than there was before.

So this July actually, the ADA is going to turn 30--

Grace: Happy upcoming birthday, ADA.

Alyssa: Woohoo! And we are starting to see some new products for accessibility, especially for the past few years, such as the prototypes that were shown in an exhibition called Access + Ability. This is from the Cooper Hewitt. But one additional opinion article came out that highly promoted facial recognition’s use for accessibility. This is a New York Times article by Jenni Lehrer-Stein, a disability rights advocate. And the article is titled “What it's Like to Use Facebook When You're Blind.” In the article, Lehrer-Stein discusses her blindness and the issues she experiences with Facebook. This issue is none other than the screen reader, or a text-to-speech feature that reads text out loud from a website. To a user who is blind or has low vision, reading aloud a text-only status is no problem. But once there are pictures, then the user has to rely on both the text within the status and an alternative text description.

So when Facebook began working on accessibility, it introduce the screen reader first and then the alternate text to accompany photos. In 2016, Facebook actually started using artificial intelligence to create automatic alternative text. And then in 2017, they started using facial recognition in addition to the alternative text. Therefore, to the ear, the photos are now much more alive than they have been before and the user experienced is enriched.

Grace: Interesting with the facial recognition…is that pulling from what they already have the ability to like tag people in photos, is that kind of where they came from that idea, you think?

Alyssa: Absolutely, yeah. So this is basically --and you can opt-in or opt-out of this if you'd like if you don't want Facebook to identify your face with your name and your profile. But when you do opt into this facial recognition, then to a user who is blind or has low vision, instead of hearing “this person is smiling,” “this is a girl smiling,” “this is a girl like interacting with a door” …I'm just coming up with a random example. But instead they hear, “This is Alyssa interacting with a door.” “This is Grace interacting with a door.” So now because of that, like there's a little bit more of a connection there.

Grace: And just out of curiosity, because we've been talking so much about privacy and opting in versus opting out... Do we happen to know whether opt-in is automatic, and then you have to opt out? Or…

Alyssa: I believe, from my own personal experience with Facebook, it does automatically introduce the feature. So therefore…

Grace: Like, you're talking about opt-out format.

Alyssa: Pretty much, yes. And they try to like spin it in a pretty cool way. Like, “hey, we can automatically tag you in photos now,” which some people, like, they're totally cool with. Others are not comfortable with—

Grace: Right, personal preferences.

Alyssa: Yeah, so they have like that opt-out option, just in case. But, you know, like really, the difference between this regular alternative text and the artificial intelligence plus the facial recognition within these photos, like, you know, it's a difference of being able to hear a loved one’s name in the photo or being able to identify the trees or the beach and a garden in the background a lot more or identify like the activity taking place in the photo.

So you know, in other words, it's like the more tech that is being implemented in the space, the more descriptive the photo becomes. And, you know, that means the world's to people that can't see the picture to really begin with.

Grace: So we've seen through this article, and through some of the research that you've done that clearly, facial recognition has a potential massive benefit to serving those who are blind or who have low vision while using this platform. And yet, the conversation that we're seeing starting to take place now is that many are against facial recognition because they worry for their privacy and data. So we're seeing an interesting like, intersection of two specific trends going here. And because as we’ve mentioned before, apps like Clearview can be dangerous if placed in the wrong hand.

Alyssa: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's because of anybody, like, who wanted to potentially stalk somebody…If that gets into the wrong hands then, that's a big problem.

Grace: And if our listeners, if you recall from a previous let's talk episode, facial recognition technology can also be biased or misidentify people, which adds to the fact specifically if law enforcement is potentially thinking about using this or if even with using the facial recognition for those who are blind or have low vision, you know, if it misidentified someone in the photo, then that could potentially be problematic as well.

We're also beginning to ask these questions and create new policies to protect our privacy. So what do you think the response is to those who asked “why get rid of facial recognition when they have this great benefit?”

Alyssa: You know, that's a really strong question to ask. And, you know, for a lot of facial recognition technology and artificial intelligence, it is still currently in development. We are currently trying to program it so that there isn't that bias that's taking place. And you know, for sure, like facial recognition technology, like, it does definitely have its place there. Something that's really important within this opinion article that Lehrer-Stein actually mentions. This is a direct quote: “she does not approve of the uncontrolled deployment of facial recognition technology.” In fact, she actually “pushes for these strict regulations to take place that would prevent the companies from it inappropriate, unlawful, or intrusive purposes, and she does “support communities who push to limit the use of facial recognition technology for government, immigration and law enforcement.”

So, you know, no matter what our own opinions are within this podcast episode, facial recognition technology is still going to move forward, no matter what. But, you know, the more that all of us within this podcast, outside of this podcast…the more we ask and communicate on these questions, the more developers will work on this technology, and the more there will hopefully be a lot more regulations for it as well. We do have the option to opt-out of facial recognition on Facebook, that I've mentioned before, and you know, California now have the option to opt-out of their data sold on websites as part of the California Consumer Privacy Act. So, you know, these regulations, they are happening, they're being talked about, but, you know, to really end it off, like perhaps like moving forward within 2020, we are going to expect to see hopefully more of these regulations that will at the end of the day, protect all of us. But, you know, this is maybe an optimistic opinion.

Grace: I don't know, I think with what we've seen happening globally with Canada starting to look at privacy laws, India starting to implement those, Brazil with their upcoming implementation of their law in February 2020… I think it's going to be a global trend. How long that takes…I don't know if anyone really knows, because it is clearly a highly polarized topic. I'm sure many of our listeners may have talked about facial recognition with their friends, family, and you know, and there's clearly a wide range of opinions coming with this. But I do I do agree with you, I think in the next coming, you know, decade or even five years, that we're going to see a lot more regulation or a lot more push for regulation. And what we'll see how that falls in the cards.

Alyssa: Absolutely. And one last thing I want to mention, especially to finish off this topic of technology and accessibility… You know, in a previous two part episode that we had on the podcast, we did have Betty Siegel as a guest speaker. And she does make the excellent point that “it's not about us without us.” So in other words, if your organization wants to implement technology to serve and assist those who have disabilities, it's absolutely vital to make sure that those with the disabilities you're serving are present for the conversation.

Grace: Absolutely. It is…representation absolutely matters specifically at the table in these conversations and, you know, for anyone who you know is on the other side and you know, doesn't have experience with either creating these sorts of assistance programs or, you know, making sure that they're installed and available, or don't have family members who are affected or aren't affected themselves…I think it is absolutely crucial because as we've mentioned, even before with AI and facial recognition, bias is one of our worst enemies and you don't know what you don't know. So I absolutely agree with that.

Alyssa: Absolutely. Alright, well, that seems like a pretty good place to wrap up. Thank you so much for joining me for the episode today, Grace.

Grace: Absolutely!

Alyssa: It’s a lot of difficult topics, and it's a lot of predictions and hopes for the new decade. But here's to kicking off the new year and yes to moving forward with technology and within the arts.

Grace: Absolutely.

Alyssa: Coming up on the AMT-Lab website: If you want to read a little more about Facial Recognition in the arts, check out Jaishun Fang’s article titled “Facial Recognition in Museums and Legal Considerations.” This article will explain how facial recognition works in detail. In addition, the article will give different examples of facial recognition’s public uses and how the public responded. Finally, there will be recommendations for how facial recognition could help in a museum setting.

Next up, our Chief Editor of Research, Lydia Killian, will have her article on Google Analytics Suite published. This article will give instructions on Google Tag Manager, ads, Google Data Studio, Google Optimize, and more so that your organization can use Google Analytics to its highest potential.

And finally, an article by Silvia-Adriana Vacilescu will be published on practical AR in arts and culture. This article will break down what exactly AR is and how it is constructed, plus what sorts of technicalities to expect when hosting AR in a museum space.

Expect these articles and more on www.amt-lab.org.

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Thanks for listening to the Arts and Management and Technology Lab Podcast Series. You can read more on the intersection between the arts and technology at www.amt-lab.org. Or, you can listen to more interviews and discussions in our Podcast Series on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or Stitcher. Thank you for joining us.

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Audio transcription for AMT Lab’s Podcast Series is supported by Otter.ai.